Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, can you tell this chamber how much your government is spending this fiscal year on the servicing of and interest payments on the Trudeau debt? Can you compare that to the 1.29% of GDP that your government is spending on national security, defence forces and our NATO obligations?

Honourable colleagues, can you imagine if we had to carry out an operation today like we did this week in 1944 with our Canadian troops? What would happen if they had to carry out an operation on behalf of Canadians in the name of freedom? I can tell you what would happen, Senator Gold: We would be in quicksand. I read the CBC story a couple of days ago where we have Canadian soldiers paying out of their pockets for helmets and basic equipment that they need to do their job. One just has to shake their head.

Why is this government spending so much more on interest to pay for the debt that Trudeau has accumulated compared to supplying resources needed by our forces? Isn’t your government — the Prime Minister and its ministers — ashamed of the fact that you’re spending tons more to service the debt than you are to supplying our national forces with the equipment they need?

Senator Housakos: Health care —

Senator Housakos: The government should be ashamed. When you have soldiers paying out of their pockets for helmets and the basic equipment they need to do their job, you should be ashamed. The fact that you’re not shows how shameless this government is.

But let’s return to the core of this issue and the problem that we have: You’re spending $44 billion in interest payments to service the Trudeau debt. That’s where the real shame and the problem are. If you’re not ashamed that our military is on their knees, are you ashamed that 6.5 million Canadians can’t find a doctor in this country? Are you ashamed that your government is paying just as much right now to service the Trudeau debt as you are in Canada Health Transfer payments to provinces, which is probably one of the reasons why 6.5 million Canadians can’t find a doctor? Are you, at least, not worthy of accepting that as shameful?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader. Now that we have confirmed from the answer you have given the Leader of the Opposition here in the Senate that your government doesn’t care much about dealing with foreign interference, let’s try another subject matter, which is the record that your government has set when it comes to food banks in this country and the pummelling that the middle class and the poor are receiving in light of these terrible economic policies of your government.

I am going back to a question I asked before the break, and I’m hoping, now that you have had a week to reflect on it and maybe go to your Liberal colleagues in the Prime Minister’s office or maybe even called your Minister of Finance, you can answer the question. It’s a simple question. Can you tell the Senate and Canadians how much your government, the Trudeau government, is paying in interest payments on the debt for this fiscal year?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, it is really remarkable that three weeks after getting this question, you can’t answer in a transparent and honest forthwith fashion. It’s not a complicated question.

I think I understand why your government refuses to answer the question. I would be embarrassed as well if I were part of a government that is paying $44 billion of interest this fiscal year on the debt that you have doubled since you have come into power. I would be ashamed to actually come up with that number. You have had ample opportunity to answer the question.

I can understand the shame, because in this fiscal year your government is about to spend as much money on the interest on the national debt as you are in health transfer payments, which explains why one in five Canadians — and I would venture to say one in four in some provinces — don’t even have a family doctor.

I have another question for you, and it’s an even simpler one. If you look at this current fiscal situation, your government’s spending is almost even on interest payments on the debt and health transfer payments.

In 2015, I was a member of this chamber when the government at the time was spending $27 billion in interest payments on debt that previous governments had accumulated. It was less than two thirds of what they were paying in health transfer payments to the provinces.

If you weren’t a Liberal government representative in this chamber and you were an average Canadian, which one of those two fiscal pictures would you prefer to have as a Canadian citizen?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate. It’s always comical to hear him lecture the Leader of the Opposition about respecting this institution. The truth of the matter is that your government has been continuously disrespectful of Parliament. Just in the last few days, we had the Minister of Finance not answer the questions of a member of the House of Commons and call him a “party hack.” That same minister goes to a committee in the House of Commons that we were filibustering for weeks to get the Minister of Finance to show up to answer basic questions, and when she does, she says she’s tired of Conservative “fiscal fearmongering.” Well, we’re tired of Liberal fiscal incompetence, government leader.

Senator Housakos: Government leader, we’re asked to vote on budget bills in this place. We approve budget bills. You’re the Leader of the Government and you don’t know that particular amount of money is $43.9 billion? I find that unbelievable. It has been unbelievable for days now, both in the House and in this chamber. We’re asking the government a basic question, and it leads to a problem where Canadians have a lack of confidence in this government. The fact is that you’re spending more on debt interest management than you are on health care transfers in this country. That’s probably why the government doesn’t even want to acknowledge the amount of $43.9 billion. It’s embarrassing and shameful.

Is it just that the minister and your government have utter contempt for Parliament and for the requirement to have to submit to our questions? Because the truth is, government leader, for weeks we’ve seen that in response to the attempts on the part of the opposition to get basic answers. When it was all over, the minister went on to accuse the member of Parliament of bullying her. Imagine, every time the opposition asks questions, we’re bullying and being partisan and so on. We’re just doing the job that Canadians have sent us here to do.

You do it too, government leader. Every member of the Trudeau government does. You denigrate our parliamentary institution and the job of the opposition on a regular basis. You put Parliament in such a negative light every time you get up and criticize us for criticizing the government, because that is our fundamental role.

My question to you and every member of the Trudeau government, for that matter — and I’d love to get an answer — is: Who do you think you are in this chamber and where do you think you are? It’s a simple question. Who are you in this chamber, what is your title and where are you?

Senator Housakos: At the end of the day, we ask respectful questions on behalf of taxpayers and we’re obligated answers.

I’ll ask you in the same words and polite fashion the question that the parliamentarian asked the Minister of Finance. Can you tell Canadians how much we’re spending or are projected to spend on interest on the debt this upcoming fiscal year?