Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, on the very serious issue of national security, while we’re finally getting a public inquiry on foreign interference — as you know, we’re getting one because the Prime Minister was dragged into one kicking and screaming. As we also know, government leader, we are still waiting for the government to take action on the foreign registry. Of course, I suspect we will not see action until a new government is elected.

We are all aware of the very serious allegations brought forward by the Prime Minister as well in the House of Commons yesterday. Out of respect for the ongoing investigative process, I won’t comment on that or ask you to comment on that, government leader. However, it does highlight the importance of parliamentary oversight and the opposition’s role in participation in that oversight when it comes to our national security and foreign interference.

Government leader, in your answer you said to the leader of the official opposition that the Prime Minister made choices vis‑à-vis NSICOP. There are no choices to be made. There must be a parliamentary body representative of all parties, particularly when it comes to the Senate Chamber and the official opposition.

Will you commit, government leader, to go back to the Prime Minister’s Office, the PMO, and explain to them that there must be a representative from the official opposition on NSICOP? If not, can you explain to this chamber why not?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader, Senator Gold. It is astonishing how little the Trudeau government has done in dealing with foreign interference. Yesterday, this parliamentary chamber had the Minister of Public Safety before us, and, even more astonishingly, when asked two simple questions of when we will have Beijing’s illegal police stations closed down and what date we will have a foreign registry put into place, he could not give this parliamentary chamber an answer. It is unbelievable, government leader.

I will simplify the question for you because I know this government has a hard time with targets. I will allow you to answer broadly. Can you please tell this chamber when you will have these illegal Beijing police stations shut down, and when we will have a foreign registry put into place? You do not have to give me an exact date, but can you please give the Senate of Canada what month and what year?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Minister, it’s clear that the way I measure progress on foreign interference and the way you measure progress are very different. The truth of the matter is there is a piece of legislation in this chamber — a chamber that is filled with government appointees. You know that if there were a political will to move that legislation to committee, review it, amend it and get it back to the House, it could be done very quickly.

This is just another example of why the government is dragging its feet when it comes to foreign interference.

I will ask two simple questions, which reiterate the fact that the government is dragging its feet. When will the illegal Beijing police stations operating in Canada, confirmed by the RCMP, be shut down? By what date will we have a foreign registry put in place in this country? Hopefully, it is before the end of 2023.

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader. Now that we have confirmed from the answer you have given the Leader of the Opposition here in the Senate that your government doesn’t care much about dealing with foreign interference, let’s try another subject matter, which is the record that your government has set when it comes to food banks in this country and the pummelling that the middle class and the poor are receiving in light of these terrible economic policies of your government.

I am going back to a question I asked before the break, and I’m hoping, now that you have had a week to reflect on it and maybe go to your Liberal colleagues in the Prime Minister’s office or maybe even called your Minister of Finance, you can answer the question. It’s a simple question. Can you tell the Senate and Canadians how much your government, the Trudeau government, is paying in interest payments on the debt for this fiscal year?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, both in the other chamber and in this chamber, it has been now six years that we’ve been asking about this issue of foreign interference. Semblances of this bill have been tabled back in 2019 by MP Kenny Chiu in the House of Commons. I tabled this bill now 14 months ago. That is a long time. The minister now, for a number of months, has been talking about publicly consulting. What do they need to consult on? We know what needs to be addressed, and this is a potential tool that can be put in place quickly.

Our American allies have done it. Our allies in the U.K. have done it. Our allies in Australia have done it. Why can’t this government do simple things that the public is calling for, that the opposition is calling for and that can take a couple of months to do?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Today, colleagues, the defence from the government leader is fake news — we cannot trust the Globe and Mail and we cannot trust legitimate news outlets. Interesting.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Today, colleagues, the defence from the government leader is fake news — we cannot trust the Globe and Mail and we cannot trust legitimate news outlets. Interesting.

Senator Gold, several times in your replies to our questions yesterday, you said that we need to get serious about allegations of dealing with foreign interference in our electoral system. I can assure you, Senator Gold, that we have been very serious and consistent in asking these questions for a very long time. It is time your government gets serious when it comes to dealing with foreign influence in our country and electoral system. We have had a Prime Minister in the last few days who has been flip-flopping his stories non-stop on all these allegations. He’s been vacillating, and we’ve seen no action whatsoever except for a number of stall tactics and trying to keep Canadians in the dark.

Now, all of a sudden, we have a special rapporteur who is going to solve the problem. Well, Senator Gold, we have an Ethics Commissioner right now advising that your cabinet ministers undergo specialized ethics training because his office is just too busy over at the other place. We have a record number of outside consultant contracts that your government has given out, and they’ve done that in the midst of a bloating civil service. In the meantime, your government cannot provide basic services. Now, he needs someone, of course, to advise him on how to deal with allegations of foreign interference on an election campaign where the allegations claim he participated with his party in that interference.

My question is about the Prime Minister regurgitating an announcement that they will hold public consultations in implementing a foreign agents registry — we’ve heard that now over the last few days. High time we do the right thing. The United Kingdom, the United States, Australia — they already have this legislation in place, government leader.

Public consultation by your government was announced more than a year ago that they were going to do this. Has a date been set for these consultations? No. Has the methodology been established? No. What steps have been taken to launch this public consultation? None.

The question is simple: What concrete action has been taken other than these announcements that have never been followed through on?

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Leader of the Opposition): Minister, last week, your colleague the Minister of Foreign Affairs was asked during a House of Commons committee meeting if she believed that Canada experienced foreign interference by state or state-backed actors in last year’s federal election. Minister Joly declined to answer, saying the matter was under the purview of the Minister of Public Safety.

So I will ask this of you, minister: Do you believe Canada experienced foreign interference by state or state-backed actors in the last federal election? If you agree that it took place, where will you lay the blame for this interference, and what will your government do to take action and prevent this in the future?

Senator Housakos: Minister, that’s very reassuring, actually. I appreciate that answer. It’s a good first step to recognize foreign interference and influence in various institutions in this country by various nefarious states around the world.

Would your government be supportive of a foreign influence registry, as proposed in Bill S-237 tabled in this chamber, that would force agents acting on behalf of foreign states and trying to influence our institutions and our democracies to register in the proposed registry so they are transparent and accountable?

I agree that this is a pressing and urgent issue and that we have to be vigilant and that we should be open to considering all of the tools so that our national security apparatus can protect our national security both here and abroad.