Senator Housakos: That is another very good question, senator. Canada, as you know, is a signatory to a number of treaties, particularly the Dublin treaty. We have no time for cluster munitions. We recognize that when countries enter a time of war, sometimes you even have signatories to these conventions that take drastic steps. We can get into a debate about how justified this is at various times; I’m always of the opinion that war and violence are never justified, except in self‑defence. If someone attacks my home, family and people, with all due respect to treaties and other commitments we have, all bets are off.

These are case-by-case decisions for our government and our Parliament when it comes to those particular times. You are absolutely right — we trade economically and have allies around the world who are not always completely aligned with us on everything. Cluster munitions is one of them. As we know, our largest trading partner and strongest political ally has engaged in constructing, building and selling them. I believe what this bill does is reinforce in our bilateral relationship with them that this is not something that we will tolerate. We won’t tolerate being pressured into reversing our position, and my understanding and sense is that, hopefully, it will help reinforce those on the other side of the border of the forty-ninth parallel who are of the view that the Americans can defend themselves in an appropriate fashion without using this hugely destructive tool in the art of war. There are many weapons in the art of war that can be used in self-defence, and, for that matter, in offensive operations as well.

(On motion of Senator Patterson (Nunavut), debate adjourned.)

On Other Business, Reports of Committees, Other, Order No. 40, by the Honourable Bernadette Clement:

Consideration of the fourth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources, entitled Hydrogen: A Viable Option for a Net‑Zero Canada in 2050?, tabled in the Senate on May 9, 2023.