Senator Housakos: Health care —

Senator Housakos: The government should be ashamed. When you have soldiers paying out of their pockets for helmets and the basic equipment they need to do their job, you should be ashamed. The fact that you’re not shows how shameless this government is.

But let’s return to the core of this issue and the problem that we have: You’re spending $44 billion in interest payments to service the Trudeau debt. That’s where the real shame and the problem are. If you’re not ashamed that our military is on their knees, are you ashamed that 6.5 million Canadians can’t find a doctor in this country? Are you ashamed that your government is paying just as much right now to service the Trudeau debt as you are in Canada Health Transfer payments to provinces, which is probably one of the reasons why 6.5 million Canadians can’t find a doctor? Are you, at least, not worthy of accepting that as shameful?

Senator Housakos: Senator Omidvar, I appreciate, all of a sudden, the concern that we have in this chamber, and, of course, our side will respect and support your motion; it’s common sense.

But I would also like to see more consistency when it comes to human rights and not cherry-picking. I also want to make sure that the government that represents this Parliament and this country also has the courage to stand up and call out Iran when they invest in Hezbollah and when they do what they do so despicably in Lebanon, in Gaza and all around the world. It’s not enough to have a navel-gazing motion and just call on the government to list them. We’ve been calling on this government to list them since 2015. What we’d really like to see is the government leader get up in the chamber and say that we will do it. I’d like the government leader to get up in the chamber as representative of this institution and tell the government you represent to list the IRGC, and do it now. You have a moral obligation. Until we start doing stuff like that, I think I’m a little bit skeptical about the intention of many of these motions — when they happen and the way they happen.

We’ve now had eight years of a government that has been soft on human rights and has been soft on Iran. Just a few weeks ago, I asked about a news story we saw in the Canadian news about family members and friends of the ayatollah and the regime in Iran living in Toronto. They’re living off the proceeds of that regime, and they’re living here freely — no Magnitsky sanctions. None of the laws we have in this country are holding these authoritarians and their friends and family to account. Colleagues, you were there when I asked the question, and you can pull them out in the transcripts. I got less than acceptable answers from the government leader, and, of course, we never get acceptable answers from the government. They keep telling us it’s complicated.

I can go on and on, but it’s a little bit late, and I know everyone is tired. All I will say is that, of course, we Conservatives support the motion. We have been consistent now for two decades when it comes to condemning the IRGC. We’ve never wavered. When Mr. Harper was in government, he took concrete actions. He did it in the international arena. He was never afraid to do so. He was never afraid of the consequences and blowback, and we currently have a government that is afraid to call out Beijing. For about two years in 2016-17, they were actually giving us a lecture in diplomacy — ready to reopen embassies in Iran. These are all facts. I’m not making it up, and you all know it.

Let’s move this motion. It deserves to pass, Senator Omidvar, but colleagues, let’s also make sure that, going forward, human rights is something we defend morning, noon, evening and all the time. It’s our obligation as a nation.

Thank you.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, can you tell this chamber how much your government is spending this fiscal year on the servicing of and interest payments on the Trudeau debt? Can you compare that to the 1.29% of GDP that your government is spending on national security, defence forces and our NATO obligations?

Honourable colleagues, can you imagine if we had to carry out an operation today like we did this week in 1944 with our Canadian troops? What would happen if they had to carry out an operation on behalf of Canadians in the name of freedom? I can tell you what would happen, Senator Gold: We would be in quicksand. I read the CBC story a couple of days ago where we have Canadian soldiers paying out of their pockets for helmets and basic equipment that they need to do their job. One just has to shake their head.

Why is this government spending so much more on interest to pay for the debt that Trudeau has accumulated compared to supplying resources needed by our forces? Isn’t your government — the Prime Minister and its ministers — ashamed of the fact that you’re spending tons more to service the debt than you are to supplying our national forces with the equipment they need?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, I rise to speak on this important motion from Senator Omidvar calling on the Government of Canada to list the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, as a terrorist organization. Of course, this should come as no surprise. Many of you have seen me get on my feet on many occasions in this chamber over the years, and this is an issue that is very important to me, as it has been for this caucus now for many years. Human rights are universal. Human rights have no religion or colour and should have no politics.

Unfortunately, I have seen far too often politics get in the way of doing the right thing and defending human rights unequivocally. It is unfortunate. Of course, I rise to condemn the IRGC and to condemn Iran, as my colleagues have before me. Senator Frum and Senator Tkachuk, when I came to this place, way back in 2009 and 2010, would unequivocally be on their feet on a regular basis condemning the IRGC for their terrible human rights violations and for the fact that they are a regime that is probably number 1 in the world in sponsoring state terrorism. It is a regime that is diabolically set on destroying our Western values and principles, and we’ve seen it time and time again when they fund organizations like Hezbollah, other terrorist groups and fundamentalism, which they’ve been known to fund around the world.

We’ve seen women in this state being treated more atrociously than in any other state. We’ve seen the morality squad picking up citizens without any justification, without any rule of law, imprisoning them and doing even worse. We’ve seen people being lashed because of their religious beliefs, their faith or, for that matter, no faith.

It’s a despicable regime and it’s amongst some of the great bullies of the 21st century, right up there with the Chinese Communist Party in China, in Beijing, and the Erdoğan regime. They’re in a race to see which nation can imprison more journalists and take away more rights from LGBTQ people or women, as I said, or any other rights.

It’s a moral obligation of this institution, of course, to call them out, as it is a moral obligation of the Canadian government to always stand on the right side of history, as more often Canada has done. I go back to 2007, when the Canadian government prohibited Canadians from financial or other dealings with designated persons, as described in UN sanctions, Resolution 1737; or in 2010, when the government imposed additional sanctions against Iran in relation to their proliferation of sensitive nuclear activities. This was carried out in close consultation with like-minded partners, including the United States and the European Union, in response to a grave breach of international peace and security that was likely to result in serious international crisis. Also in 2010, Canada, as chair of the then G8, prioritized action against Iran. Prime minister Stephen Harper at the time stated, “Canada will use its G8 presidency to continue to focus international attention and action on the Iranian regime.”

In 2012, Canada suspended diplomatic relations with Iran, giving Iranian diplomats five days to leave the country. That’s called leadership; that’s called action. It also closed the Canadian embassy in Iran. Canada updated its travel reports and warnings to advise Canadians to avoid all travel to Iran. Simultaneously, Canada listed Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism under the terms of the State Immunity Act.

Colleagues, these are just some actions that were carried out by a principled government when foreign policy was principled, not transactional or knee-jerk-reaction politics, which was, “Let’s do what the other government before us did.” It was a government that decided to stand up for what was right, regardless of the political or economic consequences. I can tell you as a young senator through the years 2007 to 2012, I was very proud of my government because we put our money where our mouth is.

Now, I look at what has been happening over the last few years, and the truth of the matter is every single time I’ve gotten on the floor of this chamber to find out why the Canadian government hasn’t listed and taken even more steps against the IRGC, I get nothing but vacillating and rhetoric about how it’s difficult, and it’s complicated, and we support human rights, but, but, but. So at some particular point, as I said, you always have to put your money where your mouth is.

We’ve also seen, as of 2015, a government that was elected in this country, and it was one of the most shameful moments of my parliamentary life as a Canadian. None of us should forget that the current Prime Minister and the government used words like, “We have to open dialogue with Iran.” Let’s not forget, colleagues, back in 2016, the current government was talking about reopening our embassy and diplomatic ties.

By the way, they never hit pause when it came to trampling on women’s rights in 2016. They weren’t treating homosexuals, lesbians or gay people better in 2016. They never showed any signs of glasnost or openness. They never said, “You know what? We’re pulling back our funding from Hezbollah.” Nothing had changed whatsoever, except our government decided to do the opposite of what the previous government did, with blinders on. That is nothing more than blatant and unacceptable partisan politics.

Then we saw time and again over that period of time motions in the House of Commons being defeated and pushed back — motions that were calling for strong condemnation of the current regime in Iran. Back in 2018, there was further ongoing sponsorship around the world of terrorism, including instigating violent attacks on the Gaza border. We asked back then in the House of Commons that we condemn the recent statements by the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei calling for genocide against the Jewish people. We called on the government to abandon its plan back then and cease any negotiations or discussions in regard to restoring diplomatic relations. I can go on and on.

But we achieved nothing. All we got from the government was, “We can do better.” I don’t think it’s better. I don’t think emboldening bullies, terrorists and organizations of that nature to think that a democratic government like ours is transactional and we’re willing to make a deal at any price and sell down the river souls and human rights. I think it’s actually despicable, and it was one of the most embarrassing moments as a parliamentarian for me.

But I can tell you this: I’ve had many embarrassing moments as a Canadian and as a parliamentarian since 2015, because I’ve been unequivocal about human rights. It doesn’t matter if it’s minority Uighurs in China, press freedom and religious freedoms vis-à-vis the Erdoğan regime or, when it comes to Iran, shooting down Flight PS752 and killing 55 Canadians and many more. Never, ever show any flexibility or any tolerance for these despicable bullies.

But our government did and has, and I think it’s wrong. Amongst the list of despicable actions on the part of our government and our Parliament, nothing was more embarrassing than when, a couple of years ago, we had a motion before this floor recognizing what was happening to the Turkish-minority Uighur people in China and calling it what it was — a genocide. By the way, colleagues, of all the democratic houses and chambers in the Western industrialized world, not one except the Senate of Canada defeated that motion — the most shameful experience that I ever had as a parliamentarian. There’s no justification. I still don’t have any logical justification for how a majority of government-appointed senators — 33 of them — got up and voted against a motion recognizing what was going on against the minority Uighurs in China as a genocide. And we know what was going on. Let’s call a spade a spade.

In the other chamber, which is a minority chamber, we had the NDP, the Conservatives and the Bloc all do the right thing and call it what it was, and we had our government abstain — by the way, the only Western democratic government that abstained from calling it what it was. The Americans weren’t afraid. The Brits weren’t afraid. The French weren’t afraid. What in the world was our government thinking to this day of abstaining, other than giving in to a bully and a government that has no respect for human rights? And that despicable behaviour crossed over — it spilled over — in this chamber. Not only did we not allow that motion to stand on principle and shine as a beacon of hope for standing up for people and human rights, but we did the most despicable thing. Thirty-three senators stood up and voted against that motion, and that’s for you to look at yourselves in the mirror as the years go by and ask yourselves why.

Senator MacDonald: They’re independent.