Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, your government repeatedly said that user-generated content would not be regulated by Bill C-11. You explicitly ruled out the regulation of podcasts.

On May 12 of this year, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, released a myths and facts communiqué stating that concerns over the regulation of podcasts were a myth, and that anyone who creates a podcast isn’t a broadcaster under this law.

Quietly, last Friday, the very same regulator announced that podcasts must be registered with your government. Senator Gold, for a government supposedly consumed with misinformation and disinformation, this government continues to engage in it. Why were Canadians lied to in this manner by the Trudeau government and the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC?

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, your government continues to say — as does the CRTC — that digital creators are not being regulated but that the platforms are. The reality of the matter is that’s the equivalent of saying books aren’t being regulated, but bookstores are. This is insanity, Senator Gold. It has to stop.

At the end of the day, if the CRTC doesn’t clearly understand what the government’s intention is with this bill, will you give clear directive? Or is this just another mess that Pierre Poilievre will have to clean up when he becomes prime minister?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, just a couple of months after this chamber acquiesced to the government on a bill that the opposition warned would have the opposite of the desired effect — we warned that instead of saving media, Bill C-18 would be its death knell, especially for local and smaller outlets — and despite those warnings, the Online News Act was passed, and here we are, Senator Gold.

Facebook wasted no time carrying through on its threat, a threat you and your government scoffed at. As promised, they are out of the news business in this country. Google looks poised to follow very soon.

How is that working out for us, Senator Gold? This week we heard about Torstar Corporation shutting down its Metroland Media Group publications, and they won’t even pay severance to those who lost their jobs. What does your government have to say about how well Bill C-18 is doing with regard to saving media in this country?

Senator Housakos: That is very sad, leader. Bill C-11 is another example of the centralizing measures of the Trudeau government, which imposes its laws on the provinces. It doesn’t consult with Alberta when its work impacts the oil industry. It doesn’t consult Quebecers when it meddles in Quebec culture.

Senator Gold, why did the Trudeau government not consult Quebecers before introducing a bill that specifically targets Quebec culture?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

Yesterday, the Quebec National Assembly unanimously passed a motion condemning Bill C-11. The members of the National Assembly join millions of Canadians who oppose Bill C-11. Senator Gold, will the Trudeau government hear the voices of these Canadians in Quebec’s National Assembly? Will it throw Bill C-11 in the garbage so it can try again?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate. Government leader, yesterday, I asked you a question in regard to the Trudeau government’s censorship bill, Bill C-11, and the fact that Minister Rodriguez sent a letter to the chair of the CRTC — a chair he appointed — asking her to make sure she takes into consideration the rights and freedoms of Canadians when implementing Bill C-11. Your response yesterday, government leader, was the following:

. . . it’s the responsible thing for any government to ensure that those who are charged with enforcing the law — once this law does come into force — understand their obligations to respect our fundamental freedoms as guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The question is the following, government leader: Why does Minister Rodriguez have to write a letter to the chair of the CRTC when the bill is still before Parliament and he can write into that bill his exact wishes in black and white, so that regardless of who the chair of the CRTC is, there will be no ambiguity and neither Prime Minister Trudeau nor any other government will have the right to tell Canadians what to watch or post on the internet?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, you have to admit, it’s highly unusual for a minister of the Crown to feel compelled to write a letter to the chair of the CRTC asking her to respect Canadians’ rights and freedoms in regard to a law that hasn’t even gotten out of the door of the House of Commons. Clearly, even the minister himself felt compelled to have to do that. That in itself should raise some questions.

Senator Gold, yesterday, I asked you about the taxpayer-funded CBC announcing plans to move its operations entirely online. Senator Gold, the CBC can, to use your words, “speculate” and “anticipate” all it wants about the future but receives funding now to provide a service now to all Canadians in all regions.

My question is a simple one and one that we should all want an answer to: Would the aforementioned minister responsible be willing to write another letter in his nifty letter-writing campaign to the CRTC chair to ask her to guarantee that CBC funds are being used properly in alignment with their licensing obligations, or is it a one-letter-a-week policy by the Minister of Canadian Heritage to the CRTC?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate.

Senator Gold, we just completed a marathon study of a piece of legislation overhauling the Broadcasting Act in what the Trudeau government stated was an effort to bring online streamers in line with Canadian broadcasters, including the public broadcaster, the CBC.

This morning, there was an interview featuring the head of the network who stated that CBC is getting out of the broadcasting business and moving its operations entirely online. She proudly boasted about the CBC’s efforts thus far toward that goal which, by the way, would be in violation of the CBC’s broadcasting licence that requires that they provide service to all Canadians and to all regions.

Essentially, government leader, the head of the CBC is acknowledging that traditional broadcasting is dying.

How much of the CBC’s current funding is being inappropriately allocated toward these efforts to circumvent the conditions of the very licence that provides that public funding? Will your government do the right thing and freeze funding until this practice ceases by the CBC?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, your answer does not correlate with the facts. Over the last decade, we’ve seen the CBC reducing regional service to an enormous degree, simultaneously spending millions of dollars toward the digital platforms, and that is a fact. The only thing we can’t really determine is how much of taxpayers’ money they are actually spending to convert to digital.

Let’s try another question. Senator Gold, the minister responsible for your government’s online censorship bill, Bill C-11, has written a letter to the chair of the CRTC, whom the minister himself had just appointed, expressing concerns that his bill could be used to infringe on freedom of expression. Shocking. The bill is still before Parliament, so I’m not so sure why the minister would write a letter instead of just writing something in the actual bill to protect against the very thing we have been raising concerns about all along, which is the trampling of the freedom of expression.

Senator Gold, are the members of your government, the Trudeau government, unaware that they are in government and that it’s not being done to them, but it’s being done to Canadians by them? Why is the minister sending a letter to his appointee?