Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader.

Senator Gold, I’ve been asking questions regarding ArriveCAN for two years now. I’ve asked about the unconstitutionality of leaving Canadians stranded overseas. I’ve asked about Canadians being unlawfully quarantined. I’ve asked whether your government would finally do the right thing and cancel the outstanding fines levied against Canadians. Every time, no matter the question, you regurgitate the same talking points that the Prime Minister’s Office, or PMO, sends over here. It sounds good, but it’s completely irrelevant to the questions being asked. Senator Gold, I’m putting you on notice that those answers just won’t wash.

Very simply, this is my question: why? When she was in the middle of her own investigation, why was the Auditor General of Canada not informed that the RCMP was also investigating allegations of fraud pertaining to the ArriveCAN scam? Why did the Auditor General have to find out about the latest criminal investigations into your government through media reports?

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, as if it isn’t bad enough that the Auditor General wasn’t informed of the RCMP investigation into the “ArriveScam,” last week when she appeared at a House committee, your Liberal-NDP government shut down her testimony after only a few minutes — claiming that she had nothing more to add.

How would your government know what she did — or didn’t — have to add, Senator Gold? What do you know that the rest of us don’t know? What is your government hiding when it comes to this?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate.

Senator Gold, yesterday we learned that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is investigating the outsourcing of a Canada Border Services Agency contract involving the same companies at the centre of the $54 million ArriveCAN boondoggle. This is the same boondoggle that saw Canadians, who were exercising their right to return home, slapped with fines as high as $8,500. Then they were threatened with more fines if they were caught breaking the quarantine — as high as $750,000.

It was bad enough when we thought these fees were being levied to pay for your government’s complete failure in awarding this outrageous contract in the first place, but now it’s looking less like a failure and more like a deliberate get-rich-quick scheme for those with connections to the Trudeau government.

Senator Gold, what assurances can you give me and Canadians that Canadians weren’t unlawfully detained just so your government’s friends could line their pockets with taxpayers’ cash?

Senator Housakos: The only assurance that this chamber and taxpayers have is that the RCMP is looking into it. Hopefully, they’ll get to the bottom of which pockets got lined.

Senator Gold, given the latest news regarding it, will your government finally do the right thing and cancel the outstanding fines that were issued as a result of this deeply flawed and — as we now know — fraudulent app? Will you apologize to Canadians who were unlawfully ordered into quarantine despite having done nothing wrong — Canadians such as Joe Walsh and thousands of others who have been fined?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate. I’d like to take us back, unfortunately, to COVID-19 which was a terrible time for all Canadians, and directly and indirectly touched us all.

Government leader, I have to rise today to ask questions about Canadians who were intimidated, persecuted and victimized by the incompetence of this Trudeau government, particularly with regard to your tool — which was, on many occasions, brought into question here — called ArriveCAN or, as I called it during COVID, “ArriveCAN’T.” Will your government apologize and pay reparations to those Canadians who, despite using the app, were forced into quarantine because of glitches in the app, as well as those who presented their paper copy proof of vaccination upon re-entry to Canada but were fined for not using the app itself, including Canadians like Joanne Walsh?

What does your government intend to do? Does your government have any plans to compensate these Canadians whose right to enter this country unimpeded was breached because the Trudeau government just couldn’t admit that they messed up and their ArriveCAN “ArriveCOULDN’T”?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, on a number of occasions, I brought my preoccupation to you on this very floor while this injustice was happening to Canadians. This has nothing to do with protecting Canadians from COVID; this was just a messed up, inappropriate process — that the government put into place — that unfairly persecuted Canadians. Canadians who were exercising their legitimate right to return home were slapped with fines of as much as $8,500, despite showing proof of vaccination. They were then threatened with more fines of as much as $750,000 if caught breaking quarantine — quarantine was used as a punitive measure rather than a medical one.

Was it to pay for your government’s total failure on that ill‑conceived, terrible and costly app? You saw the bill going up and up. I asked you about that in the middle of COVID on this very floor.

Is this just another revenue grab? Is that why innocent, law‑abiding citizens were wrongfully ordered to quarantine: to pay for this government’s failure in regard to this app? Why this injustice?

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, the only people who feel betrayed in this country are Canadian taxpayers who have been betrayed by this government for a number reasons.

Senator Gold, now that the mandatory use of the ArriveCAN app has finally and rightfully been scrapped by your government — that is how useful it has been — why does the CBSA still expect to use the full amount that has been budgeted for this fiscal year, which doesn’t end until March 31, 2023? It’s a simple question.

Also, will your government do the right thing and forgo enforcing financial penalties wrongfully levied against Canadians because of their inability to use this flawed app?

There have been a number of hard-working Canadians who reached out to my office and who have been fined up to $18,000 for the simple fact that there was a glitch or they did not have access to ArriveCAN. At the end of the day, don’t you think it is only responsible to remove these fines, or has this flawed app become another tax grab at the expense of these betrayed Canadian taxpayers?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, my question is for the government leader in the Senate. Senator Gold, in a recent report to Parliament in response to a question from the opposition, your government misleadingly stated that the deeply flawed ArriveCAN app had cost taxpayers a total of approximately $29.5 million for developing, maintaining and promoting this app. What the report did not make clear is that the amount only covers the cost for the fiscal year that ended last March and that an additional $25 million has been approved for the current fiscal year by the CBSA — which expects to use that full amount — bringing the total closer to twice what the government reported in their parliamentary report.

Senator Gold, why does your government have such difficulty providing truthful and forthright responses to questions on behalf of hard-working Canadians who want to know where their money is going? I know that sometimes you are frustrated by the question, but is it simply that the government does not know how to count or that they deliberately fudge the numbers in order to give a false representation of the facts?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, my question is for the government leader, Senator Gold. Earlier this year Public Safety Minister, Marco Mendicino, stated that he would issue a clear directive to Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, that Canadians returning home would have the option to present in person to border agents, including any required documentation, in hard copy rather than being penalized for not using the ArriveCAN app.

Senator Gold, Canadians who are arriving by air are still being refused boarding by airlines unless they have used the app, and Canadians still face financial penalties if they arrive at land crossings without having used the app.

My question, Senator Gold, is simple: Why has this still not been communicated to CBSA agents?

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, I appreciate that, but it has been a while since the government has made that commitment with regard to the app. I appreciate that the ArriveCAN app can be a useful tool for some, and I have no doubt that Canadians of certain generations appreciate it more than others but, the truth is, it should be optional. We have agents at entry points for a reason. Their responsibilities shouldn’t be entirely relegated to an app, especially one that has been prone to technical issues. Moreover, Canadians should not be turned away from entering their own country under any circumstances. I remind honourable senators that the Prime Minister, once upon a time, said that a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.

Can we get a commitment that this will be rectified? It has been a while now. I have asked this question in the past, and the minister has publicly given directives to CBSA. Canadians are still being penalized at the border, especially elderly Canadians who don’t have access to this app.