Senator Dalphond: Could the government demonstrate its responsiveness to this matter with concrete action? Do we need to conduct a pre-study to repeat once again that the chamber has asked that Bill C-13 be amended so that it is finally amended or that we are told it will be amended?

(1450)

Hon. Bernadette Clement: Honourable senators, my question today is for the Government Representative, Senator Gold. As a poverty lawyer and a proud member of the African Canadian Senate Group, I have keenly followed Canada’s progress in decreasing our poverty rates, particularly for racialized communities. Therefore, I was happy to see that in the 2020 Canadian Income Survey, poverty rates for people designated as visible minorities were included for the first time.

However, in reviewing this data, I had some concerns over the discrepancies between the poverty rates for racialized communities. The 2020 national poverty average is 3.6%. The poverty rate for persons designated as visible minorities was 8%, well above the national average. Within that, Black Canadians have a poverty rate of 7.5%.

My questions, Senator Gold, are: How has the government acted on this information to address the disparity between the poverty rates for visible minorities versus non-visible minorities, and what approaches, mechanisms or strategies has the government been using since the survey to specifically target poverty rates for members of racialized communities, like Black Canadians?

Hon. Claude Carignan: Honourable senators, my question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. Leader, some public health measures have been lifted and a relative calm seems to be setting in with respect to the pandemic, so Canadians would like to start travelling again. However, travel requires getting a Canadian passport.

Last March and April, Canadians submitted more than 500,000 passport or passport renewal applications. Passport Canada appears to be experiencing the same issues as Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, where slow processing has become the institutional norm. Canadians who want to apply for or renew their passports are facing unbelievably long wait times. What is worse, the minister responsible for the issuance of passports has not given Canadians any indication of how long they can expect to wait. It is taking weeks or even months, leader. Desperate people are showing up at dawn at the Guy‑Favreau complex in Montreal to try to get an expedited passport.

What concrete action does the government intend to take to remedy this unacceptable situation?

(1500)

Hon. Tony Dean: Honourable senators, I will preface my prepared remarks by just making a few points about what I have seen unfold this afternoon and this evening.

I think that it is fair to say that this has been a bit of a raucous debate about a pre-study. We have seen increasing degrees of rhetoric, and I think it is fair to say that the words and intentions of Senator Gold and his colleagues have been unfairly mischaracterized repeatedly.

The Hon. the Speaker: The session is suspended until 8 p.m.

(The sitting of the Senate was suspended.)

(The sitting of the Senate was resumed.)

(2000)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Gagné:

That, in accordance with rule 10-11(1), the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications be authorized to examine the subject matter of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, introduced in the House of Commons on February 2, 2022, in advance of the said bill coming before the Senate; and

That, for the purposes of this study, the committee be authorized to meet even though the Senate may then be sitting or adjourned, with the application of rules 12-18(1) and 12-18(2) being suspended in relation thereto.

Senator Moncion: Thank you for the question. No, we do not have that assurance. However, for the last couple of years we have conducted a study of the Official Languages Act and the reforms we were looking for in the act. The government did take notice of the amount of work, and the number of recommendations we provided to them. When they were working on the new legislation, they were inspired by what had been created and prepared by the Official Languages Committee. Six different reports were provided to the Minister of Official Languages, Ms. Joly, and the government did take notice. The minister also had extensive consultation with stakeholders, but thorough work was done within the Senate.

The Hon. the Speaker: I am sorry, Senator Plett, but Senator Dean’s time has expired.

Senator Dean, are you asking for more time?

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Senator Carignan, would you take a question?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, it is now six o’clock. Pursuant to rule 3-3(1), I am obliged to leave the chair until 8 p.m. If you wish this session to be suspended, please say, “suspend.”

Senator Dean: And I’m not convinced by colleagues in this place who watched the previous government routinely impose time allocations, sometimes allocating bills within a single day, lecturing us on the efficacy of the processes of the Senate.

My last prefaced remark is that I look around this room, and I look in all directions and I look at those from all groups and parties and I see nothing but impressive colleagues, both veterans and recent appointees, who will not allow this institution to slide into irrelevancy, which is a comment that I heard earlier. I’m proud to stand among all of you for that reason.

Now let’s get back to the motion.

Senator Carignan: I do not want to repeat my speech in my response, because I do not have enough time. The important thing is to avoid a slippery slope where eventually we stop playing our role as the chamber of sober second thought. This morning I made the following observation: At the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources, we are studying a bill for which 75 amendments were proposed. I was listening to us and I realized that we are quite skilled at taking a second look at bills, but maybe less so at reviewing them the first time around.

We allotted seven or eight meetings, and there are several technical aspects of government policy to address as well. I think that I would like to be able to benefit from the discussions among MPs and the direction they plan to take from a policy perspective in the House of Commons on a bill of this nature, so that we can learn from these discussions and the witnesses. Senators could then complete their study with the testimonies they will have not heard, including evidence from lobbyists that were not heard at the other place, and look at them from a certain distance. I think that is the rule in the Senate and one we should maintain, except in special situations.

(1640)

As I already mentioned, when I was government leader, for most of the pre-studies we did, the work was already done at the other place. The committee had concluded its study, the witnesses had been heard, and almost all of the amendments had been proposed, because, as you know, at the House of Commons the amendments are mostly presented in committee.

[English]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question, honourable senator. Respect for both official languages is always a concern for the government, because Canadians deserve to have access to Canada’s constitutional texts in English and in French. The Minister of Justice is aware of the motion adopted by the Senate and of the senator’s interest in this issue in particular. I have been assured that the government will closely examine this issue, as it has for other matters pertaining to official languages and for Bill C-13. I will keep the Senate informed of any developments.

Senator Gold: The government is aware of the difficult situation caused by these delays and is doing its utmost to solve the problem.

[English]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): The question of funding on health matters is one of ongoing negotiation and discussion between the federal government and provincial and territorial partners. It is no secret to senators, either experienced or less experienced, that the push and pull between provinces and their demands and the federal government’s response is an ongoing feature of Canadian federalism and will continue to be so.

This government has made historic increases in health care provisions to the provinces, and the provinces can expect to continue to have a good partner in the federal government to help them meet challenges with their health care systems.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, I guess I could simply spend 30 minutes reading my speech of earlier today, just in order to take some time and reinforce what I already said earlier, but I won’t do that. I will keep my remarks fairly brief and may even finish before six o’clock, unless I speak really slowly.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of the guests of the Honourable Senator Greene: his wife, Shami Netonze and his stepson, Shabram Ali.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

An Hon. Senator: Question!

Senator LaBoucane-Benson: Are you aware that Bill C-92, which I sponsored a few Parliaments ago — and Bill C-15 just last Parliament — had a robust pre-study rolled into the study of the bill? I think it went quite successfully. We felt really good about the robustness of that study. That’s the first question.

Second, are you willing to disclose the voices that you have heard either in your head or maybe out of this chamber? Who is saying that there is going to be a study? Senator Gold has said that we’re not “buffaloing,” we’re not pushing or doing any of those things. As the Government Representative Office, we are interested in a really robust study as well.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Quinn, I’m sorry, but the time for debate with Senator Moncion has expired.

[Translation]

Senator Gold: The position of the government is not to punish Canadians; it’s to protect Canadians. Governments, both at the federal level and, I assume, at provincial levels encourage Canadians to avail themselves of vaccines, whether it’s a third booster or a fourth, as I have the good fortune to have taken. The Government of Canada will continue to follow the guidance that it gets from Health Canada and other experts in the interests of protecting Canadians.