44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 21, 2022
- 03:37:17 p.m.
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- 03:37:19 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to raise something about the committee agenda as well. We had adopted a calendar on October 26, and the clerk subsequently sent out a proposed revised draft calendar, but the revised version was not adopted by the committee. In terms of what the committee has adopted, it was the original version adopted on October 26 that the committee had agreed to.
That agreed-upon version had a discussion of the situation in Ukraine scheduled for this coming Wednesday for the full two hours. I notice the meeting was published for Wednesday, but that does not align with the agreed-upon calendar. We're certainly open to a discussion about potential changes to the calendar—in particular, we have an urgent motion on the situation in Iran that we plan to give notice of today—but in the absence of agreed-upon changes to the agreed-upon calendar, I think it is important that we schedule meetings in accordance with the agreed-upon calendar, not with things that were not agreed on.
My suggestion would be that either we stick to the agreed-upon calendar, which is the two hours on the situation in Ukraine, or we try to set aside some time today for a discussion of committee business. Again, we're open to that discussion, but in the absence of an agreement.... The agreement was that this coming Wednesday we would have two hours of discussion on the situation in Ukraine.
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- 03:39:16 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I understand all that. My point would just be, with great respect for the clerk, that the scheduling decisions are made by the committee. The committee has agreed, in the agreed-upon version, that we do consideration of the draft interim report—
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- 03:39:36 p.m.
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Sorry, I am speaking to a point of order.
My point of order was this. We received a notice for Wednesday's meeting that is not consistent with the unanimously agreed-upon calendar of the committee. There may be good reasons that informed someone's opinion that we should adjust the calendar, but I think it is incumbent on the chair to schedule meetings in accordance with the agreement of the committee, unless that agreement changes.
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- 03:41:18 p.m.
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Yes. Let's proceed according to the agreed-upon calendar for the rest of the month, and let's hear from the witnesses.
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- 03:41:28 p.m.
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We can hash it out on Wednesday if we want, but we're going to have a problem on Wednesday if we are not proceeding in accordance with the agreed-upon calendar. That's my only point.
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- 03:41:38 p.m.
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It's because we have an agreed-upon calendar. I mean, we're supposed to—
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- 03:41:57 p.m.
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We can discuss this on Wednesday, but I don't think the chair can just change the calendar if it's been unanimously agreed on.
I'll leave my comments there. I won't have anything to add. I've made my point.
Thank you.
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- 04:06:29 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As I signalled at the beginning, I want to use the first minute of my time to provide a notice of motion regarding an urgent and deeply concerning situation related to Iran. This notice of motion is as follows:
That given recent reports of threats to lives of individuals in Canada from the Iranian regime, the ongoing freedom movement in Iran and the killing of dozens of Canadians by the regime including the shooting down of flight PS 752, and pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the threat to Canadians from the Iranian regime and how the Government of Canada should respond; that the committee invite the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Public Safety, the Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and the Director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) to testify as part of this study; and, that the committee seeks to hear from these officials prior to Friday, December 16, 2022.
That is the notice of motion, Mr. Chair.
I think, given what all members would understand to be the urgency and sensitivity of the situation, and that the calendar seems to be more fluid than we thought it was anyway, this motion would be worth discussing as soon as possible. We would propose that it be considered for discussion on Wednesday.
I'll now turn back to the witnesses. Thank you so much for being here.
I want to start by asking our friends from the NCCM whether there are different models proposed for what some would call a regionalized approach to responding to forced and child labour—recognizing that there are specific situations, especially in the case of East Turkestan, where forced labour is not something that happens in the shadows. It's actually being organized and coordinated centrally by the state as part of a genocide, which is very different from some of the other kinds of forced labour we see in other parts of the world.
You mentioned the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act in the United States and other cases of targeted legislative instruments. I very much agree with you that Parliament needs to act on this. We have Bill S-204 from Senator Housakos, which would ban goods coming from East Turkestan. We could do what the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act does and provide a reverse onus, where no goods come in unless there's proof that no forced or child labour was involved.
Could you speak to why you think it's important to have a regionalized approach as part of our response to forced and child labour? Why is it not good enough having the same piece of legislation apply to the whole world? Why do we need to specifically, either in legislation or regulation, name regions and respond to the particularities of those situations?
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- 04:11:14 p.m.
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That was four minutes, Mr. Chair.
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- 05:02:32 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much to all of our witnesses.
I want to make a comment about consideration of this bill, just at the beginning.
I know we've had proposals for amendments, and there may be other members who are considering amendments. I think it will be very worthwhile for anyone who is considering putting forward amendments to ensure that members of this committee have an opportunity to review them in advance. I think it would be worthwhile actually for witnesses to be able to see and comment on amendments in advance, because dropping amendments at the last minute that important witnesses haven't had an opportunity to provide feedback on is not really a very effective way to legislate. I do hope that those who are contemplating those kinds of proposals will share them with the public and with committee members in sufficient time that allows some of the folks who are here and other witnesses to be able to provide feedback—if not verbally, then certainly in writing. That seems like a best practice when it comes to legislating.
In terms of my questions, I want to start with Ms. Hotchkiss.
I wonder if you can just share a little bit more about the work of IJM when it comes to these issues. The committee is looking at some other issues, such as the situation in Haiti and the breakdown of the rule of law there, where your work on police reform, on justice, might have some relevance as well. If you could maybe take a minute to share more broadly for those who are less familiar with what IJM does, I think it would be very worthwhile.
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- 05:05:30 p.m.
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What do you think Canada's international development assistance can do to strengthen justice systems and promote police reform around the world?
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- 05:06:25 p.m.
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Thank you very much.
My next question is for Ms. Dwyer.
I understand that there are amendments you're seeking in terms of changes to this bill. It would seem to me that regardless of those other proposals, taking what most people recognize as a step in terms of exposing awareness, encouraging companies to be reporting on this, would be a constructive step at least in bringing more attention to this, and that's generally what we've heard from witnesses.
I know your network feels differently. Help us understand why it wouldn't be worthwhile to still take this step. I'd love to hear your feedback.
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- 05:08:29 p.m.
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I would just say that this isn't a government bill.
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- 05:27:21 p.m.
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On a point of order, Chair, based on the offer from Mr. Sheehan, is there unanimous agreement for the committee to have the minister on Monday? I suspect that there would be, but we should clearly delineate that.
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Mr. Garnett Genuis: Thank you.
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- 05:33:23 p.m.
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If he's available for two hours, that would be great.
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