SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 267 - Dec/13/23

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:37:44 p.m.
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There are no questions and comments. The hon. member for Lac-Saint-Jean is also rising on a point of order.

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Dec/13/23 6:37:56 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think the reason some people are raising points of order is because the hon. member for Mirabel has been black-listed by the hon. member for Carleton. His Conservative Party cronies want to play games. Let us allow my colleague to finish. It is a great bill.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:38:10 p.m.
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The hon. member asked whether the hon. member for Mirabel could come back tomorrow to answer questions, because he would not have time to answer them today. However, there is no question period. That is all there is to it. The hon. member for Edmonton Griesbach has a point of order.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Dec/13/23 6:38:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am very interested in the member for Mirabel's comments. I have seen the Conservatives several times attempt to shutdown debate in this place and censor members. If you could, please ensure that we have a lively debate and that the member has a full speech without interruption from the—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:38:43 p.m.
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There is no question that the hon. member for Mirabel will have his full time. We have another point of order, from the hon. member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola. An hon. member: They're doing it again.

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Mr. Dan Albas

Dec/13/23 6:38:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, asking to make sure we have interpretation is the right of every member of Parliament. I take offence to what that member said.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:39:01 p.m.
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No, that was not the issue. The hon. member for Mirabel.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon

Dec/13/23 6:39:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will refrain from rising on a point of order myself, but I will use the time I have left to thank Joanna Gualtieri, whistle-blower, former foreign affairs official and pioneer in this field in Canada. I would also like to thank Pamela Forward, president of Whistleblowing Canada; David Hutton, co-founder of the Whistleblowing International Network; Tom Devine, of the Government Accountability Project in Washington and Ian Bron, of the Centre for Free Expression, a former whistle-blower. This is clearly getting a lot of support. I would of course like to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates for their work. In particular, I want to mention the members for Courtenay—Alberni and Edmonton West. The latter has been championing this cause for a long time. I also want to thank my colleague from Beauport—Limoilou. If ever there was a caring, competent and understanding person to do this work in committee, it is her. As my colleague clearly demonstrated in committee, the current legislation discourages whistle-blowers. There is a breach of trust. Rather than encouraging whistle-blowers to speak out, we are discouraging them. These people are acting in the public interest, in the interest of Canadians, Quebeckers and taxpayers. We are seeing it here in the House. We saw it a few minutes ago. Certain types of conduct are eroding people's confidence in our institutions. Whistle-blowers counterbalance that. I will use the minute I have left to wish all of my colleagues from all parties a happy holiday season. I want to take a moment to say happy holidays to my constituents in Saint‑Placide, Kanesatake, Oka, Pointe-Calumet, Saint‑Joseph‑du‑Lac and Sainte‑Marthe‑sur‑le‑Lac, as well as those in the north in Saint‑Colomban and those in the east in Saint‑Anne‑des‑Plaines. I want to wish a merry Christmas to everyone who lives in Mirabel, around the airport, and to you, Madam Speaker.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:41:20 p.m.
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I thank the hon. member for his kind wishes, and I wish him the same in return. Is the House ready for the question? Some hon. members: Question. The Assistant Deputy Speaker: The question is on the motion. If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon

Dec/13/23 6:42:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if we could have a recorded division, I would be very grateful.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:42:18 p.m.
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Pursuant to Standing Order 98, a recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, January 31, 2024, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

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Mr. Richard Lehoux (Beauce, CPC)

Dec/13/23 6:43:12 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise this evening to take part in my first adjournment debate in the House. I am speaking tonight to follow up on a question I asked the Prime Minister about Bill C-234 and, more importantly, the embarrassing way it was handled in the Senate. For some unknown reason, it was the Minister of Transport who rose to answer me and, frankly, I was not pleased with the response. Bill C-234 is a common-sense Conservative bill that would remove the carbon tax on propane and natural gas used for drying grain and heating buildings, to give farmers a chance to survive this government's crippling carbon tax and take the first step toward reducing the cost of food in our country. In his response, the Minister of Transport said that I was misleading Canadians. He used the same tired arguments he always does, such as the idea that the carbon tax does not apply in or affect Quebec. In my opinion, and in the opinion of anyone with an iota of common sense, the carbon tax obviously affects Quebec, directly and indirectly. Quebeckers will certainly be affected at the pump when the second carbon tax adds 17¢ per litre to the cost of gasoline. When Quebec farmers import their propane from Ontario or other parts of the country, the carbon tax applies to them. I have invoices from pork and chicken producers in my riding to prove it, but the government refuses to look at them. In other cases, the carbon tax applies indirectly, for example, when Quebeckers import any other domestic goods shipped by truck across the country into our province. The higher prices are getting passed on to us because, contrary to what the Bloc-Liberal coalition believes, Quebec is not self-sufficient. Bill C‑234 is extremely important. At the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, we have heard testimony from countless farmers from every part of the country. Every one of them agrees that this bill should be passed as soon as possible. The Prime Minister decided to pressure the Liberal senators he himself appointed to gut Bill C‑234 at the Senate and then send it back to the House. They managed to remove the clause on barn heating and reduce the sunset clause from eight years to three years at the Senate. Bill C‑234 will be sent back to the House with these amendments. It will no longer have an impact on the price of food, which was the original purpose of the bill. As we have heard many times, there is currently no other viable alternative for drying grain or heating buildings. That is why the Conservatives agreed to the eight-year sunset clause in the initial bill. The questions I have for the government are the following. Does the government think that the carbon tax affects Quebec, either directly or indirectly? When the Senate's new amendments are debated here in the House, will the government do the right thing and delete these two amendments that have completely gutted Bill C‑234, so that it can be adopted as it was the last time, by the vast majority—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/13/23 6:47:03 p.m.
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The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services.

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Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services, Lib.)

Dec/13/23 6:47:08 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate. As we know, Bill C-234 would remove farmers' obligation to pay a price for the greenhouse gas emissions they generate when they use propane and natural gas for farming activities, including to dry grain. The government, of course, appreciates that farming is critical to our country. Of course, we must safeguard our ability to feed our citizens and many more around the world. However, Canada already has a host of programs to support and assist farmers. For example, we have supply management systems for milk, eggs, chicken and maple products. We have insurance programs for crops, and we have trade protections. In addition, we have financing programs for farms and farm equipment, and we have laws to prevent the seizure of farming assets. The reality is that we are facing a climate crisis and we need to act now to mitigate a more serious situation. Unfortunately, climate change already threatens farming operations, biodiversity and the health and well-being of so many individuals in Canada and around the world. As we all know, Canada can suffer deeply from the catastrophic consequences of the climate crisis. Just in the last few months, we have had to deal with historic wildfires, floods and storms. Canada simply cannot afford to not take decisive actions to fight climate change. In 2018, damages to Canadian farms resulting from severe weather reached $2 billion, the fourth-highest cost on record. For Alberta crop farmers, we must not forget about 2019, the “harvest from hell”. The Western Producer noted then that the estimated total value of unharvested crops in Alberta, due to the severe weather events, was $778 million. Clearly, not acting on climate change now would not help our farmers at all. Experts tell us that the best way to tackle the climate crisis is through carbon pricing. That is what we are doing here in Canada. Putting a price on greenhouse gas emissions is a logical way to induce behavioural changes that will lead to widespread reductions in emissions. When it comes to farming, the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act contains specific provisions to support Canadian farmers. In fact, most fuel used on farms is already relieved from the fuel charge, which would otherwise apply. Furthermore, recognizing that many farmers use natural gas and propane in their operations, the government already implemented a refundable tax credit for farmers in provinces that are subject to the fuel charge, starting for the 2021-22 fuel charge year. The three-year-long exemption proposed in Bill C-234, as amended by the Senate, would eliminate an incentive to promptly adopt clean technologies that would undoubtedly emerge during that period.

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Mr. Richard Lehoux

Dec/13/23 6:49:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate what my colleague, the parliamentary secretary, said about the impacts of climate change. I completely agree with her on that. I was a farmer for more than 40 years. However, I want people to understand the impacts of the tax on the cost of farm production. It is increasing the very high cost for chicken farmers, for example. We know that when baby chicks arrive at the chicken coop, the heating needs to be set quite high. We are told that it is not true that the tax has an impact. Just this past Monday, we asked the president of Metro, Mr. La Flèche, whether the price of the carbon tax and propane, among others, had direct impacts—

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Mrs. Jenica Atwin

Dec/13/23 6:50:42 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Madam Speaker, climate change is causing wildfires, natural disasters and other extreme weather events to become more frequent and more severe. The effects are widespread and devastating for communities across Canada. Of course, that has a price that our farmers will have to endure. The impact of climate change on farming is terrible. We simply cannot afford not to fight the climate crisis. The Parliamentary Budget Officer agrees that the impact on a hundred dollars of groceries is significantly higher considering the impacts of climate change. The reality is simple. Bill C-234 would delay much-needed programs while farmers should start transitioning toward greener technologies. I have seen first-hand the damage that is caused, with the loss of infrastructure and housing, specifically in indigenous communities, which are at the front lines of this. We cannot go backward. We have to keep moving forward.

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Mr. Kevin Vuong (Spadina—Fort York, Ind.)

Dec/13/23 6:51:30 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-61

Madam Speaker, on November 24, I reminded the government that access to clean drinking water is a human right. More specifically, to facilitate access to potable water by first nations, I asked when the government will provide appropriate funding and technical resources to train and certify first nations people to become water infrastructure operators in their home communities. In terms of that goal, I also asked if the Minister of Indigenous Services could confirm that indigenous operators will be paid at a level that eliminates the wage gaps with operators in non-indigenous communities. It is 2023; Canada is a G7 country, and the government is still trying to claim that it deeply cares about first nations. First nations people must be empowered with the training, the skills and the jobs to provide their own communities with qualified personnel and clean water. Before the parliamentary secretary regurgitates their government talking points on the new bill, Bill C-61, let us take a few moments to examine this alleged legislative miracle. In spite of the government's recent announcements, it is clear that it has been unable to provide access to potable water for all first nations. The CBC reported that Chief Chris Moonias of the Neskantaga First Nation, a community that has been under a 28-year boil water advisory, did not even get an opportunity to consult with respect to the bill. Given the bill's far-reaching goals, it is odd that a first nation under a boil water advisory for almost three decades had no prior knowledge of or input on Bill C-61. I will save the parliamentary secretary some time in waxing poetic about Bill C-61. I will note that the bill touches on supporting first nations to be involved with developing and operating water infrastructure in their communities. Again, hopefully this would be at a salary that eliminates the wage gap with non-indigenous operators. Therefore, yes, Bill C-61 seeks relief for first nations water problems, one day. However, when it would occur is debatable. Let us be clear: Bill C-61 is not the product of the government's concern for first nations. The government was compelled to introduce the bill because of an $8-billion drinking water class action settlement for first nations. Bill C-61 contains $1.5 billion to compensate first nations and their communities that were deprived of clean drinking water for at least one year between November 1995 and March 2024, along with $6 billion for construction and maintenance of water infrastructure. It is in this water infrastructure development that my initial question resides. I hope the new legislation will indeed provide more clean water access to first nations communities and that the salary gap between indigenous and non-indigenous operators will be finally resolved. I recognize that the government lifted 143 first nations boil water advisories since 2015. However, there are still 28 advisories in 26 first nations communities. That too must end. Therefore, I would like to ask the parliamentary secretary yet again: When will the government provide appropriate funding and technical resources to train and certify first nations people to become water infrastructure operators in their home communities? Will indigenous operators be paid at a level that eliminates the wage gap, yes or no?

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Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services, Lib.)

Dec/13/23 6:55:03 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-61

Madam Speaker, I think there will be lots of good things for the member to hear in my comments this evening. I would like to acknowledge that we are standing on the unceded traditional territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin people. I want to start by emphasizing that Indigenous Services Canada is working in full partnership with first nations communities to support sustainable first nations-led approaches to ensure that on-reserve water systems are safe. Whether it is water, health, housing or infrastructure, first nations communities must have the tools to decide for themselves. That is why Indigenous Services Canada and first nations are working to transfer the care and control of water and waste water services to first nation bodies. Service transfer, in partnership with first nations, not only leads to better outcomes, but it is critical to supporting indigenous self-determination. It is the basis of our work on access to safe drinking water. Since 2015, the federal government has committed over $5.6 billion to first nations to build, repair, and support effective management and maintenance of water systems in first nations communities. By 2025-26, the federal government will have increased, by almost 400%, the annual funding it provides to support the operations and maintenance of water and waste water systems on a permanent basis. First nations have lifted 143 long-term drinking water advisories and prevented 265 short-term advisories from becoming long-term, with support from Indigenous Services Canada. This week, Bill C-61, the first nations clean water act, was introduced. It would affirm the inherent right of first nations to self-government. It would also ensure that first nations have more tools necessary to protect source water, and to maintain drinking water and waste water infrastructure in a self-determined way. It would hold the federal government accountable to continued funding investments in water infrastructure. It would also lead to the application of minimum standards for clean drinking water in every first nation and lay the groundwork for the creation of a first nations-led water institution to support those communities. As the member's question acknowledges, water operators are key to ensuring communities have access to clean and safe drinking water and reliable infrastructure. The federal government supports first nations to recruit, train, certify and retain qualified water system operators in their communities, while also improving or maintaining water infrastructure to ensure longer life cycles for water assets. However, as the member suggests, there is a wage gap. The department conducted an analysis using 2016 census data comparing on-reserve and off-reserve water and waste water operator salaries, and found a 42% wage gap. Recent investments in operations and maintenance funding will enable first nations, who determine the salary levels of their water operators, to support improved operator retention through wage increases and/or other support measures. Across the country, water operators are using innovation to improve access to clean and safe drinking water, advocate for source water protection and water conservation, as well as train and mentor the next generation of water operators. Six years ago, Indigenous Services Canada established the National First Nations Water Leadership Award to recognize leadership in and outstanding dedication to the advancement of clean and safe drinking water in first nation communities. I would like to end with an acknowledgement of the 2023 award recipient, Warren Brown, who operates 13 drinking water systems and has led work to lift six long-term drinking water advisories. When wildfires threatened Lytton first nation in 2021, Warren Brown was essential in protecting his community's water supply by staying behind to ensure the water treatment plant remained up and running as others evacuated to safety. He wanted to do everything he could to ensure his community had safe and clean drinking water to come home to. Not only did he save the water systems in his own community, but he also helped the village of Lytton and continues to lead conversations about best practices for water services in other communities. It is through remarkable first nations leadership such as this, with support from federal funding and policies, that we will ensure all first nations communities have access to clean and safe drinking water.

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Mr. Kevin Vuong

Dec/13/23 6:58:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to begin by reiterating to the parliamentary secretary the indigenous services minister's own admission that, “For decades, First Nations did not receive the same amount of money as a community of that size to provide clean water in terms of operating dollars, maintenance dollars, training dollars,” and I fully agree with that. That discrepancy must end once and for all. I look forward to a day when every existing water advisory is lifted in first nation communities that still have them. Until then, I would like to ask the parliamentary secretary if the government could assist me in obtaining ground water maps for the Grand River watershed and provide them at no cost to the Six Nations of the Grand River.

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Mrs. Jenica Atwin

Dec/13/23 6:59:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the concern of the member. Everyone should have access to clean and safe drinking water, and waste water operators are a critical part of making this a reality. Indigenous Services Canada continues to actively support building operator capacity to ensure first nations communities have access to sustainable drinking water. Annually, the department spends approximately $24 million to support first nations water and waste water operating training. It also supports innovative solutions to improve the retention, recruitment and capacity building of water and waste water operators working on-reserve. For example, last year, the department launched a call for proposals to identify innovative capacity-building measures to support water and waste water operators on-reserve. There were 32 projects funded, which included training workshops for operators and managers, community outreach and awareness raising, internship programs, source water protection planning, youth education and outreach and the development of a variety of training materials. On the specific piece the member just mention in his rebuttal, we will certainly look into that. I will have to get back to him.

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