44th Parl. 1st Sess.
December 13, 2023 02:00PM
- Dec/13/23 2:55:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have taken real actions to hold grocery CEOs to account with more competition, because more competition means lower prices, more choice and more innovative products and services for Canadians.
Our affordability legislation will empower the Competition Bureau to hold grocers accountable and prioritize consumers' interests. The fall economic statement proposes further amendments to the Competition Act to crack down on predatory pricing and better respond to anti-competitive mergers and more.
We are ensuring that Canadians have more competitive options, and we are limiting excess profits by corporations at the expense of Canadians.
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- Dec/13/23 4:50:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague will be aware that, earlier this week, Dr. Jim Stanford was one of our witnesses. He provided our committee with a brief that derives its information from publicly available data. On page five of that brief he noted that, from the beginning of 2021 to the spring of 2022, “the world price of oil tripled” from $40 a barrel to $120 a barrel and that, in that period, “the jump in the price of oil [which was] driven by a combination of geopolitics and speculation...increased fossil fuel prices by 30 times as much as the $10 carbon price increase in the same period.” We also know from previous briefs that, in the last three years, oil and gas companies have seen their net profits go up by over 1,000%.
Why, when Conservatives are talking about the carbon tax, do they conveniently ignore these facts and ignore their very real role in driving up food price inflation? One cannot argue with the facts. This is clear data that is available for all members, and oil profits have had a huge impact on world food prices, far more than the carbon tax has. Will my colleague acknowledge that?
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- Dec/13/23 4:53:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. Unfortunately, she has just failed to answer the question. My NDP colleague asked her about the oil and gas companies' exorbitant, astronomical, skyrocketing profits, which are having a very significant impact on the cost of groceries.
I would like my colleague to talk about oil and gas profits. I hope she heard the question.
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- Dec/13/23 5:45:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do enjoy working with my fellow colleague on the agriculture committee. He will be familiar, from the multiple times that we have heard from grocery executives, that they are often talking about how they work in a low-margin industry. I think they present a slightly misleading argument. First of all, it should be pointed out that, in the last three years, their margins have doubled. If we look at it today, yes, when they are operating with a margin that is between 3% and 3.5%, it may look small. However, what people have to realize is that, when their gross revenues continue to climb, even though that margin may seem static, of course their profits will continue to rise as a result.
I just wonder if my colleague can add a bit more to that because I have noticed a bit of defensiveness from the grocery CEOs and not enough attention is being paid to the fact that we do just have five companies controlling 80% of the market. Perhaps the member has some ideas on how we can try to turn that number around so that there is a bit more flexibility and competition there.
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- Dec/13/23 5:46:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my NDP colleague. Indeed, we do very good work together on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.
As I mentioned earlier in my speech, what we are experiencing right now is quite ironic. People come to committee and tell us that they are not taking in any more money than they used to and that their profit margin is only 2%, yet when we look at the figures, we see that profit margins have skyrocketed. When we ask for details, they tell us it is because of the pharmaceuticals section. I would like to know what the percentage increase in profits is for the pharmaceuticals section.
When committees conduct studies, they take them seriously. We call in all the stakeholders, unlike the minister who did not bring in everyone. He invited a few big companies, like Nestlé, and some CEOs. He did not invite agricultural producers or people from SMEs in the agri-food industry. He could not have had all the information. It is important to mention that. When we bring these people in, we realize that there can be a major imbalance in negotiations. A small grower can be told by a big grocer that he has to lower his price; otherwise, no one will buy from him. The small producer knows what that means: He is not going to be able to sell his product, especially if it is perishable. His hands are tied.
I think that the government has a duty to poke its nose in and see what is going on. That is why the committee's report talked about having a sort of price-fixing observatory to see what is going on. A code of conduct is one way to regulate relations among the various players. We need to shine some light on the huge profits being made. Capitalism is a system that works, but not without regulation. Unbridled capitalism is not something we want. Although we seem to be gradually moving in that direction, I do not think it is what we want.
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- Dec/13/23 5:54:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, when we were questioning the witnesses, whether it was Michael Medline, or Galen Weston of Loblaws, it became quite clear that these CEOs occupy a different universe from everyday people. They breathe a rarified air. They command very impressive salaries. In Galen Weston's case, I think his take-home pay is about 431 times that of his workers.
They are quite defensive. They will say their margins are pretty small if we compare them to those in other industries, yet if we look at the data, their margins have doubled over the last three years. Here is the thing: Their gross revenues have been going up, so even if margins remain static, as they have for a little while now, they are still going to result in record profits. We can see it when we compare quarterly earnings from one year to the next.
The reason this is such an emotional issue for Canadians is that the products these CEOs are selling are essential for life. These are not just any products, like those at a hardware store; this is food that people need to bring home to keep their families alive. They also sell pharmaceutical products, which are also essential. Why we are seeing anger in the Canadian public is that, for two to three years now, families in my riding and right across this country have been having to make do with less and having to make hard choices. They are the ones bearing the burden, and all the while, corporate profits are reaching record levels.
There is an imbalance right now in Canada, a country where corporate profits are reaching record levels but everyone else is suffering. I am sorry to say this, but I do not see enough action coming out of the present Liberal government, and we know where Conservatives stand with their corporate friends. When presented with evidence showing oil and gas profits and their gargantuan effect on food prices, the Conservatives will just keep saying, "carbon tax, carbon tax, carbon tax", when that is minuscule compared to what corporate profits are doing in this sector. If they do not want to argue with facts, that is fine; they want to live in a different reality.
I want to say that I am proud to be a member of a party that drove this issue to committee. I am proud it is being discussed in the House. I will conclude by saying that I will not stop fighting for the ordinary people in my riding and making sure that we expose corporate profits and their role in driving inflation in Canada.
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