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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 266

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
December 12, 2023 10:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 266 - Dec/12/23
Mr. Larry Maguire
  • Dec/12/23 11:35:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, yes, but I will get to my point in a moment. If the member who just spoke is calling out the member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon for singing today, he is pretty loose with what he calls singing. I just want to say—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:35:40 a.m.
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We are judging artistic capacity here. The hon. member for Brandon—Souris has the floor.
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Mr. Larry Maguire
  • Dec/12/23 11:35:50 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member across the way for Winnipeg North has challenged the Speaker's ruling.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:35:55 a.m.
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I think the hon. member was trying to see if tradition overrides the Standing Orders, if I understand correctly the point the hon. parliamentary secretary was making.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)
  • Dec/12/23 11:36:06 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I talk about traditions, and all one needs to do is take a look at question periods. In the debates I have witnessed, the way in which members have voted is constantly being reflected on. All I am asking is for some clarity, and I do not think clarity can be decided instantaneously. It is something that should be brought back and thought through, because it is a very important ruling you need to make, Madam Speaker, given the very nature of what I am asking for.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:36:46 a.m.
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It will be taken under advisement because it has been raised. The hon. member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon.
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Mr. Brad Vis (Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC)
  • Dec/12/23 11:36:55 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, Standing Order 11(b) says, “In the event of a member disregarding an order of the Chair made pursuant to paragraph (a) of this section, the Speaker shall order the removal of the member.” Not only did the member for Winnipeg North disregard your order, but he then went on to state that the Standing Orders were not relevant. The Standing Orders under the Parliament of Canada Act are the rules by which we govern democracy in Canada. They are relevant.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:37:19 a.m.
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I take the hon. member's point. That is exactly why I stated what I did. I invite the hon. parliamentary secretary to go back to his speech and avoid creating more dissension.
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Mr. Ben Lobb
  • Dec/12/23 11:37:38 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would ask the parliamentary secretary to retract his comments and apologize. If he does not want to, then I suggest we move on to the next speaker and continue debate.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:37:55 a.m.
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Since we are taking his comments on the standing order under advisement, I will not be able to proceed with that, but I did invite the hon. member to retract his comments.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)
  • Dec/12/23 11:38:07 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, if at any point it was interpreted that I was challenging the ruling of the Chair, I apologize for that. I am glad the Speaker has recognized the very serious nature of what the Conservatives are suggesting by implementing that standing order because it will have a very profound effect on many speeches, not only today but well into the future. I suspect it will be referred to well into the future until the rule is changed. I suggest it is a dated rule and one taken out of context only because members opposite are against the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, which is not a reflection on the vote. It is very clear that the Conservatives do not support the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. We remember the voting marathon and voting line by line. We also remember the leader of the Conservative Party saying last week that Conservatives were going to keep the government working until Christmas, that they were going to fight the government over the price on pollution and keep Liberals voting endlessly. There were 30-plus hours of voting. That was the energy of the leader of the Conservative Party. What ended up happening? When midnight approached, a good portion of Conservatives decided to have a nap and did not necessarily participate in the proceedings. Some caused a great deal of concern. When we voted line by line, we saw the true colours of the Conservative Party on a couple of motions. One was on funding to reinforce Canada's support for Ukraine, better known as Operation Unifier. Canadians would have been shocked to see the manner in which the Conservatives dealt with that particular issue. People would be shocked—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:40:42 a.m.
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The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan is rising on a point of order.
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Mr. Garnett Genuis
  • Dec/12/23 11:40:44 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, a moment ago the member was reflecting on the presence or absence of members at the end of last week. That is very clearly against the rules. The member is not new and knows that reflecting on the presence or absence of particular members is against the rules. I hope he will bring himself to order.
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:41:01 a.m.
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I would remind the hon. member that referring to the presence or absence of members is against the rules.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/12/23 11:41:06 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, for clarification, if one were to say that 40% of the Conservative caucus was not present for 45% of the votes, would that be against the rules, as I am not talking about an individual?
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:41:29 a.m.
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It is saying indirectly what members cannot say directly, so I would remind the hon. member that he cannot make those implications.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/12/23 11:41:37 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I apologize for having an effect on the sensitivities of the Conservatives on this issue. As I said, Canadians would be very surprised and disappointed because of what we have witnessed, not only today but also the other day during the voting marathon, of the Conservative Party being influenced by MAGA from the deep south in the United States, where there is a movement that is very real and tangible and is being ushered into Canada through the leader of the Conservative Party. We see that the positions Conservatives are taking are now starting to impact Canadian public policy, to the degree that they are detrimental to our communities.
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Mr. Brad Vis
  • Dec/12/23 11:42:44 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, on a point of order, it goes without saying that Canada is a sovereign nation. For a member to suggest that we are influenced by certain— Ms. Jennifer O'Connell: Debate. Mr. Brad Vis: No. Madam Speaker, when the member brings into question whether Canada is being influenced by a foreign government on certain policies—
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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)
  • Dec/12/23 11:43:04 a.m.
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That is debate.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Dec/12/23 11:43:09 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, on the point of order, I am concerned that, through points of order, the Conservative Party of Canada, the so-called freedom party, is trying to limit and censor what I am saying in the House. I find that—
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