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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/16/23 11:52:42 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will say to the victims, not just of Paul Bernardo but of anybody who has faced crime, that we will meet the horror and trauma they are faced with with the best evidence to keep them safe and to make sure that we restore to the best condition possible after what they have gone through. That requires us being reasonable. It requires us not playing politics or attempting to extract partisan gain in dealing with this debate. These are deeply serious crimes, some of the most awful crimes that have ever happened in this country. We cannot and should not play partisan games with them.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/16/23 11:46:02 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, many people in the House are parents, and I am a father. The— Mrs. Stephanie Kusie: Do you have a daughter? What would you do if your daughter were a victim? Hon. Mark Holland: Yes, I am the father of a daughter, and they are yelling out to ask about my child. Madam Speaker, the idea that I would find those crimes anything other than repugnant, and that I or any member of the House would not do everything in their power to ensure public safety, is repulsive. The difference is that we will not mis-characterize information. We will not torque. Saying something that is not true, that a bill that has absolutely no impact on this matter is involved, is politicizing this, and that is something that should not be done.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/16/23 11:36:05 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do not doubt the member for a second when she talks about her concern for victims. I am concerned that she would cast aspersions on any member of this House, as if we do not share equally in her concern for victims. Every single person in this House has been touched by crime, unfortunately many times viscerally and in ways that were very destructive. The way to meet that is with evidence. The way to meet that is to make sure that we have the best policies to keep our communities safe, not to let emotion lead the debate, as it did in the United States, as an example. Newt Gingrich, who was the father of a movement, said it was the biggest mistake of his career and a disaster.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/16/23 11:33:22 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, of course, the member opposite knows that we all have the deepest regard and respect not only for the victims of Paul Bernardo but for the entire country that he traumatized by these events. As the member knows, we are all horrified anytime we hear these crimes raised, but we also know that we have an independent corrections system that makes decisions about the transfer of inmates independently. It is supposed to be free from politics. What we need is a mature conversation about how we deal with this and our rightful outrage, making sure that we continue—

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/15/23 2:48:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, as every Canadian knows, the crimes that are in question are among the most grievous this country has ever faced. There is not a person in the House who is not impacted by them. I trust that the member cares deeply about it, as do I. However, the assertion that this is a decision of the government is false and, in fact, it is dangerous. The decision to transfer inmates is a decision of Correctional Service Canada. The independence of our Correctional Services has been a foundation of our country for a very long time. Having a mature conversation about how we respect that and respect victims is what I think Canadians expect.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/15/23 2:35:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I do not know the member for Peterborough—Kawartha well, but I do know that she is very sincere when she cares about these cases, and she would know that the Prime Minister would be deeply impacted as a father and as a Canadian by the horror of these crimes. Any assertion to the opposite is just frankly not constructive to the debate that we need to have. I said that Correctional Services operates independently and that it cannot be interfered with politically. I would also say that we have to be very careful, when dealing with the victims of crime, that we do not politicize that or attempt to use it in a way other than to ask how we stop—

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/15/23 2:28:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would say that I am looking directly at the leader of the official opposition for a reason. I am looking at him for a reason because when we are dealing with something as serious and as brutal as the crimes that occurred in a community that was right next to mine, that I felt viscerally, the conversation that we have has to be measured. It has to be based on co-operation and, frankly, it needs to be based on the underlying premise that every member cares equally and deeply about this, about two things, about the victims absolutely but also about not politicizing our correctional services system.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/15/23 2:24:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the crimes in question were atrocious. Crimes like that defy description. They affected people across the country. They traumatized not only the victims' family members, without question, but all Canadians. First of all, the correctional system is independent. Keeping our correctional system free from political interference is imperative.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/14/23 2:59:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, all of us, unfortunately, have had our lives touched by crime. That is something that some have to live with, and in the case of these victims, it has been in the most horrific and awful way. The only thing that is gendered about it is that women, unfortunately, are more often the victims than not. Having responsible, mature conversations about that and about how we deal with the Correctional Service of Canada, which is independent and cannot be directed by us, and how we create policies that make sure we have the right outcomes is the conversation that we need to have.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/14/23 2:57:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, again, I have offered many times to have a constructive conversation around specifics and about how we can deal with the decision made by Correctional Services Canada. Instead, we are getting into what I would categorize as very partisan territory on an issue that is extremely sensitive. We are dealing with victims here whom we all care about. I look across to the member and know that she cares as much about this as any other member does in the House, so let us have a constructive conversation. I would suggest that victims—

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/14/23 2:55:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would just observe that I do not think we should be casting aspersions about whether anybody in this House does not feel absolute horror and repulsion at these crimes. It is not a constructive or useful approach to accuse anyone of not caring about these families or these victims. The member obviously knows that just as she cares deeply about what happened in those crimes, so does every member of this House. There is an opportunity to talk about how we can ensure the decision made by Correctional Services Canada does not happen again, and that is action. That is an opportunity that we have to take together.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/14/23 2:45:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is right in her characterization of these crimes. I think she will find no argument from anyone there. Let me say that all of us, on this issue, need to work together to make sure that the families are served and the victims are served. The minister has suggested a conversation about a victim-centred approach in corrections to make sure this mistake, which was made independently by corrections services, does not happen again. I hope the member opposite will take up that conversation. I know how sincere she is in her horror of those events. I know she knows I am sincere in mine.

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Hon. Mark Holland (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/14/23 2:39:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise once again, because I think we are all unified in our horror of these crimes. I think that we are all unified in our desire to make sure that the victims, not only here but in every instance, are protected. That is why I think the minister's offer to have a conversation about how we can use this to instruct a more victims-centred approach in our corrections is the right approach. I would invite the opposition to participate in that discussion. I think the minister has been clear that the decision made by Correctional Services Canada was one that we do not support and have asked them to review.

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