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Decentralized Democracy

Hon. Mark Holland

  • Member of Parliament
  • Minister of Health
  • Liberal
  • Ajax
  • Ontario
  • Voting Attendance: 65%
  • Expenses Last Quarter: $134,982.00

  • Government Page
  • Jun/16/23 11:52:42 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will say to the victims, not just of Paul Bernardo but of anybody who has faced crime, that we will meet the horror and trauma they are faced with with the best evidence to keep them safe and to make sure that we restore to the best condition possible after what they have gone through. That requires us being reasonable. It requires us not playing politics or attempting to extract partisan gain in dealing with this debate. These are deeply serious crimes, some of the most awful crimes that have ever happened in this country. We cannot and should not play partisan games with them.
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  • Jun/16/23 11:46:02 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, many people in the House are parents, and I am a father. The— Mrs. Stephanie Kusie: Do you have a daughter? What would you do if your daughter were a victim? Hon. Mark Holland: Yes, I am the father of a daughter, and they are yelling out to ask about my child. Madam Speaker, the idea that I would find those crimes anything other than repugnant, and that I or any member of the House would not do everything in their power to ensure public safety, is repulsive. The difference is that we will not mis-characterize information. We will not torque. Saying something that is not true, that a bill that has absolutely no impact on this matter is involved, is politicizing this, and that is something that should not be done.
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  • Jun/16/23 11:43:27 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is a peppering of partisan comments here. I would just say that this is a deeply serious issue about crimes that every single one of us were impacted by. As I said earlier, this is a decision that was made by Correctional Service Canada and we have long made sure throughout the history of our country, that it operates independently of the actions of politics. We have been very careful to ensure that politics is not inserted in that process. If we want to have a conversation about the outrage we feel about this crime—
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  • Jun/16/23 11:34:45 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think we have to be very careful. These are horrific, grievous crimes. The inference that there was some other system is patently not true. The reality is that transfers in this country have always been done independent of government and remain outside of politics. I am certain the member's outrage on this is equal to mine, but we need to make sure that we respect the independence of corrections and have a mature conversation about how we deal with this issue and the emotions that we rightly have about it while maintaining the independence of corrections.
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  • Jun/16/23 11:33:22 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, of course, the member opposite knows that we all have the deepest regard and respect not only for the victims of Paul Bernardo but for the entire country that he traumatized by these events. As the member knows, we are all horrified anytime we hear these crimes raised, but we also know that we have an independent corrections system that makes decisions about the transfer of inmates independently. It is supposed to be free from politics. What we need is a mature conversation about how we deal with this and our rightful outrage, making sure that we continue—
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  • Jun/16/23 11:28:00 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the crime in question is so serious that there are no words to describe it. In March, staff were informed that someone might be transferred, but it was just a possibility. It was only once we had all of the details at the end of May that the Prime Minister—
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  • Jun/15/23 2:51:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when we talk about these issues, I would suggest that they require enormous sensitivity. I am concerned that the Conservatives are peppering every question with partisan commentary and trying to extract political advantage from this situation. I have attempted, as I have talked about this, to talk about our responsibility. We have one of the greatest correctional services systems in the world. It is admired all over the world, and one of its principle tenets is to not interfere with it politically. We all rightly feel outrage about this transfer. We have great emotion about the crimes that occurred, but we need to deal with that emotion responsibly and make—
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  • Jun/15/23 2:51:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think we should choose what we talk about. If we want to talk about the circumstances that are involved in these horrific crimes and how we can responsibly deal with a corrections system that is one of the best and most envied in the world— Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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  • Jun/15/23 2:48:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, as every Canadian knows, the crimes that are in question are among the most grievous this country has ever faced. There is not a person in the House who is not impacted by them. I trust that the member cares deeply about it, as do I. However, the assertion that this is a decision of the government is false and, in fact, it is dangerous. The decision to transfer inmates is a decision of Correctional Service Canada. The independence of our Correctional Services has been a foundation of our country for a very long time. Having a mature conversation about how we respect that and respect victims is what I think Canadians expect.
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  • Jun/15/23 2:35:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I do not know the member for Peterborough—Kawartha well, but I do know that she is very sincere when she cares about these cases, and she would know that the Prime Minister would be deeply impacted as a father and as a Canadian by the horror of these crimes. Any assertion to the opposite is just frankly not constructive to the debate that we need to have. I said that Correctional Services operates independently and that it cannot be interfered with politically. I would also say that we have to be very careful, when dealing with the victims of crime, that we do not politicize that or attempt to use it in a way other than to ask how we stop—
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  • Jun/15/23 2:33:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely true that the crime in question probably comes close to being Canada's most serious crime. It is such a serious crime. I can also say with certainty that our correctional system is independent. As I explained earlier, staff were informed of the possibility that the individual in question might be transferred. Once all the details were confirmed, the Prime Minister was informed. It was—
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  • Jun/15/23 2:28:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would say that I am looking directly at the leader of the official opposition for a reason. I am looking at him for a reason because when we are dealing with something as serious and as brutal as the crimes that occurred in a community that was right next to mine, that I felt viscerally, the conversation that we have has to be measured. It has to be based on co-operation and, frankly, it needs to be based on the underlying premise that every member cares equally and deeply about this, about two things, about the victims absolutely but also about not politicizing our correctional services system.
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  • Jun/15/23 2:26:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know the member opposite cares as deeply about the gravity as those crimes and the impact on the families as I do. I know he cares as deeply about what we are going to do for Canadians on that. I also know that he knows the independence of our correctional services system. I know that he also knows that we are not supposed to interfere politically. I would ask him to work collaboratively with us to find a way where we do not politicize Correctional Service of Canada, and we work together to make sure that the families who are impacted by crimes of this nature are taken care of.
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  • Jun/15/23 2:24:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the crimes in question were atrocious. Crimes like that defy description. They affected people across the country. They traumatized not only the victims' family members, without question, but all Canadians. First of all, the correctional system is independent. Keeping our correctional system free from political interference is imperative.
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  • Jun/14/23 2:59:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, all of us, unfortunately, have had our lives touched by crime. That is something that some have to live with, and in the case of these victims, it has been in the most horrific and awful way. The only thing that is gendered about it is that women, unfortunately, are more often the victims than not. Having responsible, mature conversations about that and about how we deal with the Correctional Service of Canada, which is independent and cannot be directed by us, and how we create policies that make sure we have the right outcomes is the conversation that we need to have.
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  • Jun/14/23 2:55:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would just observe that I do not think we should be casting aspersions about whether anybody in this House does not feel absolute horror and repulsion at these crimes. It is not a constructive or useful approach to accuse anyone of not caring about these families or these victims. The member obviously knows that just as she cares deeply about what happened in those crimes, so does every member of this House. There is an opportunity to talk about how we can ensure the decision made by Correctional Services Canada does not happen again, and that is action. That is an opportunity that we have to take together.
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  • Jun/14/23 2:48:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, opposition members want what they have asked for many times. I do not know if there was ever a point at which they supported the minister, but they do not now and that is fine. What we are talking about with the crimes they are consistently repeating are heinous traumas that were visited upon those families and, in an echoed way, upon every single Canadian. What I have heard from the minister is an offer to have a conversation about how we ensure that Correctional Services does not make a decision like that again and that we work together on that. I look forward to constructive offers from the other side, not just—
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  • Jun/14/23 2:45:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is right in her characterization of these crimes. I think she will find no argument from anyone there. Let me say that all of us, on this issue, need to work together to make sure that the families are served and the victims are served. The minister has suggested a conversation about a victim-centred approach in corrections to make sure this mistake, which was made independently by corrections services, does not happen again. I hope the member opposite will take up that conversation. I know how sincere she is in her horror of those events. I know she knows I am sincere in mine.
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  • Jun/14/23 2:39:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise once again, because I think we are all unified in our horror of these crimes. I think that we are all unified in our desire to make sure that the victims, not only here but in every instance, are protected. That is why I think the minister's offer to have a conversation about how we can use this to instruct a more victims-centred approach in our corrections is the right approach. I would invite the opposition to participate in that discussion. I think the minister has been clear that the decision made by Correctional Services Canada was one that we do not support and have asked them to review.
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  • Jun/14/23 2:38:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the horrific events that were the result of the absolutely heinous crimes by Paul Bernardo are felt viscerally, I would say, by every single Canadian. What the minister has stated is that this is a decision that was made by Correctional Services Canada, which acts independently. The minister indicated that when he became aware of it, he indicated to Correctional Services that he did not find that decision acceptable and asked for it to be reviewed. We have also asked for it to take a victims-centred approach going forward in corrections. I want to work with the party opposite on that, because I know they care—
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