Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: I have a question for the Government Representative in the Senate, Senator Marc Gold. Since the discovery of the Omicron variant, the federal government has faced a barrage of criticism for denying entry to Canada to citizens of 10 African countries, even as the variant was spreading in Europe and the United States. In particular, I’m baffled that Canada is systematically refusing to accept tests from all of these African countries, including South Africa, whose large-scale testing expertise is equal or superior to our own.

Canada is the only G7 country to demand third-country testing. How does the government explain these decisions that seem to have no scientific basis and that look very much like an arbitrary and discriminatory policy?

Senator Miville-Dechêne: Senator, I would definitely say no regarding the specific question you are asking.

When we talk about modern slavery and forced labour, the terms are not synonyms for hard work. You can have hard work, and it doesn’t have to be modern slavery. In the definition of forced labour, you have the notion of constraints. It can be a debt bondage or a confiscation of your documents. Obviously, exploitation is part of it. It’s a definition that’s different from hard labour, which can happen in construction sites and in many places in Canada.

Honourable senators know that children working in Canada is a provincial jurisdiction and different provinces in Canada have different rules about it. In general, when a human being is not yet 18 years old, there are restrictions. They can work before the age of 18 on the condition that they go to school and work does not interfere with schooling. In Canada there are already laws that apply to children that will not be touched by this particular bill.

Now to the essence of your question, no, I don’t think that family farms will be touched. If you go back to the bill, we’re talking here about large enterprises. I will read the definition of what we’re talking about so that you know we’re not talking about your regular family farm.

The entity covered has at least $20 million in assets or has generated at least $40 million in revenue, and/or employs an average of at least 250 employees. This is not a family farm; however, it could be an agribusiness that, for example, imports tomatoes and transforms them. They would probably be touched if they are big, but not the family farm.

Senator Miville-Dechêne: I am surprised that you are talking about following international guidelines, considering the World Health Organization has criticized Canada for refusing to accept these tests.

It seems to me that if the government is rejecting tests from 10 countries, including South Africa, it must suspect that the tests are defective, falsified or easy to circumvent.

Can the government provide us with the data it used to come to that conclusion, since that could help us and other countries too?

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: I will wrap up quickly. I spoke about this bill yesterday, and I will remind you that it is called the Fighting Against Forced Labour and Child Labour in Supply Chains Act. Briefly, it would require major companies with headquarters located in Canada to report once a year on the risk that forced labour or child labour is used in their supply chain, in an attempt to ultimately reduce the risk, ensure greater transparency and give consumers more tools to make their decisions.

I was getting to the conclusion. In closing, I would say that Bill S-211 seeks to make a modest contribution to a much broader and longer-term objective, which is the alignment of our trade and economic activities with the imperatives of social and environmental sustainability.

Canada has made many commitments internationally, but we have yet to include them in our domestic legislation. I will repeat that we are lagging behind.

Canada is a rich, free and modern society that respects the protection of human rights in principle. If we can’t act decisively to limit modern slavery practices in our supply chains, we run the risk of losing the moral authority that we cherish and being seen as hypocrites. That is not what I want.

That is not what some of our largest companies want either. One example would be Canadian Tire, a company that put robust systems in place to assess its foreign suppliers several years ago.

Other companies are setting an example, such as Canadian athletic wear company Lululemon, along with Adidas, Gap Inc. and others, according to a ranking by KnowTheChain.

Currently, responsible businesses like Canadian Tire and Lululemon are at a disadvantage compared with unscrupulous competitors who can sometimes pay less for products manufactured in inhumane conditions. Bill S-211 would help shed light on these practices and discourage them as much as possible, which would promote more honest competition that does not rely on slave labour. In doing so, we will stop punishing, through our own inaction, the many companies that want to do the right thing.

Canada would also catch up to its peers and would be in a position to act in accordance with its values.

Esteemed colleagues, I humbly suggest that Bill S-211 deserves to be studied in committee. I am obviously prepared to take questions, if you can remember the whole speech I gave 24 hours ago.

[English]

Senator Miville-Dechêne: That is an excellent question, Senator Omidvar. Of course, as I’ve said many times, this bill is only a first step. It is absolutely true that a child working in a factory or a manufacturing plant somewhere in developing countries can feed an entire family.

Secondly, there is something called “remediation measures,” which could perhaps be discussed at committee and explored further. Under these measures, once the problem is discovered, once a child is found to be working for them, companies are required to do more than just send the child away and say they don’t want them working there anymore. There are scholarship programs for such children so they can return to school full time, while earning a small income for the family to survive.

There are all sorts of remediation measures, and that’s clearly the key. When we start doing these investigations, the idea is not to ban companies from our supply chain the minute a problem is found. The idea is to give them a chance to make things right. We know that banning a company or removing it from the supply chain can result in thousands of adults and children losing their jobs. Yes, companies have to do more. We also need to make sure there’s a social safety net in place around these companies. Non-profits can help for sure, but the solution to forced labour and child labour is obviously for rich countries like Canada to provide more international aid. We need to focus on education because that is what can change lives in the medium term. This measure alone is sure to get that conversation started within companies. I don’t claim to know how to solve the enormous problem of child labour. We’re talking 150 million children who work and 73 million who work in dangerous and difficult conditions. Not all of these children are in forced labour situations like those who work in mines, but we are talking about a huge number of human beings.

[English]

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Senator Carignan, first of all, I want to congratulate you for introducing this bill, and especially for having the idea when the appointment happened. Like you, I was disappointed and surprised by the new Governor General’s limited proficiency in French, although it in no way detracts from her other bilingualism or her culture. As Senator Lankin said, the symbolic significance of her appointment is, of course, extraordinary. I would say that, unfortunately, this is an extremely delicate debate for francophones who want to take a stand on this issue, because there seems to be a total lack of sympathy when we call for these kinds of official positions in Canada to be held by people who can speak our language. However, the reality shows that that is often not the case.

You talked about your efforts to learn English, but the reverse does not always happen. I know Senator Lankin talked about it too, but there are courses offered in the public service for anyone who wants to learn French. In the public service, we have all the tools at our disposal to learn French if we want to, so it’s a question of willingness.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if a person who spoke only French and an Indigenous language had been appointed to the position of Governor General, that would have caused quite an uproar in our primarily anglophone country. I would encourage my anglophone colleagues to ponder this: How would they have reacted if our new Governor General spoke only French and an Indigenous language? I think people would be a little upset about that.

Senator Carignan: Well, that is kind of the point of the bill. I would have felt just as uncomfortable, understandably, if it were the other way around, because the idea is to represent Canadian identity, which is bilingual. That is exactly the purpose of this bill. I’m sure you understand that, if the bill is adopted, it will prevent the future appointment of a Governor General who speaks only French and one other language, but not English. I understand your question, and I share your opinion.