Hon. René Cormier: Would Senator Carignan take a question?

Senator Carignan: Yes.

Hon. René Cormier: Senator Bovey, thank you so much for your engagement in arts and culture and all the work that you are doing. I think this is a very interesting bill; it is very broad with a lot of objectives, and I appreciate that. I saw that the minister will have to consult with a lot of different components, ministries and provinces, and I always get a little nervous when I see such a list when we see that one of the main problems in Canada in terms of cultural policy is the fact that we work in silos. Consultation is good, but it might not be enough. I wonder if you could reflect on what might be the mechanism that could be created so the minister would have a real tool to consult and work with partners.

Senator Bovey: That is a very true and good observation. Indeed, it’s a challenge. Senator Cormier, I believe — and I think you and others do too — that there is not one sector of society that is not touched by artists and arts.

I developed an octopus a number of years ago with the eight tentacles representing the eight key issues that every level of government needs to resolve. They include crime prevention, economy, jobs, health, education, tourism, and on it went for eight of them. My research for over 20 years was looking at anecdotal and empirical data that fed into each of those. I believe that not one of those problems in society can be solved without the inclusion of the arts. The arts will resolve some of them and will provide questions for others. The challenge is to have us, as parliamentarians, work across sectors, across disciplines and across political lines — if we have political lines — and have those discussions about what it means. The list of ministries is really articulating where some of that help can come from.

I can assure you, of the more than 600 people I spoke to, many of them are working with this in those sectors and with their politicians at every level. Some of you will know that I have prattled on about this for a number of years, and I will keep doing so.

Senator Cormier: Senator Bovey, could you share with us your thoughts about the link between this declaration, which is a great idea, and the Convention on the Protection and Promotion of the Diversity of Cultural Expressions. I think you quoted that. How do you link both of those tools now?

Senator Bovey: That is another good question. Thank you. I happen to believe that artists or creators of whatever diversity work with essentially the same tools. Musicians work with instruments and music. Authors work with words, be it poetry or novels. Visual artists work with paint or drawings or whatever. Whether we are Indigenous or not Indigenous, whatever cultural diversity and whatever we have grown up with, the basic tools are essentially similar.

We have allowed them to be classified. I want to get rid of those classifications. That’s why I’m questioning the sense of excellence in grant-giving for artists. Who defines excellence? What does it mean? I believe the word excellence in Indigenous visual art, music, drama, or whatever, may be quite different than for those of us from a Caucasian background. I think we need to start opening up, and artists are challenging me to do that.

These sessions were rich. They were fun. They were hard. But my staff and I were being challenged, and rightly so. This is the result of those challenges. It’s possible if we open our minds. We have two ears and two eyes, right?

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mégie, seconded by the Honourable Senator Loffreda, for the second reading of Bill S-209, An Act respecting Pandemic Observance Day.

Senator Cormier: Senator Carignan, I sincerely thank you for introducing this bill that prompts us to have a more transparent discussion on a sensitive topic. I think that we all recognize that Ms. Simon is a highly competent and talented individual, but we also recognize that we are at a crucial point in our history in which reconciliation must be reflected in symbolic and important decisions. That said, and I’d like to hear your thoughts on this, I think that this appointment has created some profound uneasiness in Canadian society because it pits Indigenous languages against French, when they can be compatible in a certain context.

You talked about education, which is a provincial jurisdiction, as we all know. We also know that, as Senator Miville-Dechêne pointed out, the federal public service offers language training.

How is this reflected in this bill, and what are your thoughts on the challenges facing the public service, which must provide training and conduct evaluations to ensure that senior federal public servants are able to speak both official languages?

Senator Carignan: I do know that there is training that is provided and that is available. We must promote the importance of speaking both languages. I believe that we should perhaps consider creating additional incentives in the public service so that people learn both languages. My interest in this matter is growing. I am currently working on certain files concerning services in English and French in the public service, and there is a discrepancy in the deadlines, the quality of the services provided, and the response times for certain calls based on whether they are made in French or English.

There is still much work to be done. Once again, I will cite former minister Stéphane Dion, who said that if the head of an office is a unilingual anglophone or francophone, the body is in danger of being unilingual as well. That’s why it’s important that we work on all fronts, but especially on the people at the top.

Senator Cormier: I have a follow-up question. Your bill refers to the Language Skills Act. You also talked about the Official Languages Act. Parts V and VI of the Official Languages Act, and Part IV also, deal with language of work and Canadians’ right to work in their language. Do you agree, Senator Carignan, that for this new version of the Official Languages Act that is coming down the pike, it will be extremely important for everyone to take into account any possible changes in these parts of the legislation?

Senator Carignan: Thank you for your question. I don’t want to start a debate on the future legislation, but we definitely need to make improvements to major parts of this legislation and also give the Commissioner of Official Languages more enforcement powers. There is important work to be done on this file.

(On motion of Senator White, for Senator Dagenais, debate adjourned.)

[English]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Griffin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Black, for the second reading of Bill S-222, An Act to amend the Department of Public Works and Government Services Act (use of wood).