Senator Christmas: Thank you, Senator Gold. I would very much be interested to see what studies and projections were done. I think that kind of data will be most useful.

I also appreciate the reintroduction of community service orders, and I believe the success of that amendment will depend upon a significant increase in support services that are offered to the communities. Quite often judges are so hesitant to refer individuals back to the communities because of the lack of services.

You mentioned some funding increases, but has Indigenous Services Canada been a part of this bill? Will they significantly increase the amount of support services that the communities will need to assist people on community service orders?

Senator Pate: Senator Gold, I think you know that if, in fact, that were true, the government would have produced that evidence. But the evidence they have produced was that 9 in 10 Canadians want to see an elimination of mandatory minimum penalties. Wouldn’t you agree that data has been clearly sought and received by the Department of Justice?

Senator Pate: I apologize. I obviously didn’t articulate that very well, Senator Gold. What I was saying is that if that evidence existed to show that these mandatory minimum penalties would significantly impact the incarceration rates, that data would have been produced and would have been part of your speech. I don’t envy your position of having to defend that, but it would have been. There have been numerous questions and certainly there is an abundance of evidence that the data has not been produced. You have not been able to provide the actual numbers. Have I missed something?