44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 29, 2024 10:00AM
moved for leave to introduce Bill C-64, An Act respecting pharmacare.
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- Feb/29/24 2:19:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, it is very important to say that the Public Health Agency of Canada is independent, especially when it comes to national security issues. Our government set up a process to ensure that all the information is available.
It is very unfortunate that two Canadian citizens who were eminent scientists did those bad things. The RCMP is investigating. That is very important.
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- Feb/29/24 2:20:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to say that an attack on our national security by a foreign nation, be it China or Russia, represents an attack on democracy. It represents a direct attack on every member of the House. I share the member's outrage that China or any other country would attempt to interfere in our process.
The Public Health Agency, which is one of the most respected agencies in the world, hired two Canadian citizens who were eminent and well-known scientists in Canada, but who lied. It is the Public Health Agency that discovered that. It is the Public Health Agency that fired them. That is why there is now an RCMP investigation about their actions.
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- Feb/29/24 2:21:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the two Canadian scientists in question were well-known for their work in virology and had spent their time working on health treatments for those who were suffering from viruses. With respect to collaboration, there is absolutely no evidence of the thing that the member is suggesting. I do not think that it is at all appropriate to suggest that they were involved with weaponization or things of this nature.
The Conservatives have all the documents. They can see all of the information. We have waived all the normal considerations, not only of national security but also of employee relationships, that are normally kept confidential. It was our government that did that. That is why they have this—
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- Feb/29/24 2:23:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, some will attempt to turn national security concerns into partisan games. That is unfortunate.
Let me just give an example. The exchange concerning Ebola in 2019 was done in the context of trying to work with China and other countries on finding solutions to Ebola, which exists in so many different parts of the world. At that moment in time, in 2019, the relationship with China was in a different place. The information that was shared was through legitimate channels. It has nothing to do with this issue. It was absolutely known and handled with complete control.
I think it is very important to not mis-characterize national security for partisan interests.
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- Feb/29/24 2:24:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is the exact opposite of a cover-up. It was the current government that created the process that released the documents. Conservatives actually refused to participate in the process.
The second thing I will say with respect to our national security interests is that it is essential, when we are dealing with national security, to recognize two things: that the party opposite is saying it would support partisan interference into the Public Health Agency of Canada, and that if it were in government, it would see that political interference into the process as acceptable.
No, it is done at arm's length, and rightfully so. It is the Public Health Agency of Canada that identified these Canadian citizens, these eminent scientists, who were lying, and took action.
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- Feb/29/24 2:31:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will answer the first part of the answer, as I suspect we are going to have other questions on the second element.
On the first order, the first offer was to have all parliamentarians to look at the documents through NSICOP. That was an immediate offer. Some opposition members said that was not a good answer, because they wanted to make sure that if there was a need for redactions to be released, there would be a process.
I, as House leader at that point in time, suggested an ad hoc process that would ensure that an independent arbiter would make the decision about releasing the documents. I would remind the member again that it is an independent decision of the Public Health Agency to make redactions. I am sure he is not suggesting that anything other than that should happen.
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- Feb/29/24 2:32:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have already said that the documents first were released, and then the additional redactions were actually commenced by us.
The second point is that the member says “maliciously”, but we do not know what the intention was. That is the purpose of an RCMP investigation. These are individuals whom I am deeply concerned about, like the member opposite is. In having followed due process, we understand what they did.
With respect to the Chinese government, the military itself, the government, academia and scientists are all part of its military. That means that any connection they had whatsoever would have touched that, and so I think it is careful—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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- Feb/29/24 2:34:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to step back and really consider what the Conservative Party is saying here.
At the time they were hired, these two Canadian citizens were eminent scientists who were well published and well regarded throughout North America. The fact that they lied and misrepresented themselves is reprehensible—
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- Feb/29/24 2:34:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would hope they are not suggesting that, if they had been in power, they would have interfered politically, and been able, through clairvoyance, to know that these eminent scientists, who at that point in time we had no reason to believe were anything other than Canadian scientists who were doing good research, and gotten rid of them before this happened.
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- Feb/29/24 2:35:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when China, Russia or any other country threatens Canada, it is an attack on our democracy, on the House of Commons and on every member here. That worries me a great deal.
That is why we have put in place policies to further strengthen public safety and to ensure that national security is not compromised.
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- Feb/29/24 2:42:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have answered that question on numerous occasions, but let me address the proposition at the start of that question when the member said we are working together with another political party. He does not want to do that, and I get it. He is used to making partisan points and not reaching across the aisle to collaborate.
What happens when we collaborate and work together? We get national pharmacare. We get the ability to say to those who have diabetes that we have their backs and they would have medication. We get to say to women that we are going to give them real freedom, freedom over their sexuality and freedom over their reproductive rights. That is what happens when members stop focusing on partisan politics and start focusing on results.
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- Feb/29/24 2:44:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in the first order, that is not true. What is true is that the Public Health Agency of Canada, which is one of the most respected agencies in the world, and which was there for us throughout the pandemic, is entirely responsible for its operations.
The truth is that there were two individuals hired. They were Canadian citizens, eminent scientists, who were well known and well respected across Canada and around the world, who lied to the Public Health Agency of Canada. The Public Health Agency of Canada then took the very responsible action of firing those individuals and turning the matter over to the RCMP. They are currently under investigation.
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- Feb/29/24 2:45:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the representations made by the member are inaccurate, and I would invite people to read the documents, which have been fully redacted.
However, this is the contrast with a party that is focused on partisanship and differences. The member opposite talked about working with another party and what that might accomplish. What about dental care? When we focused on co-operation, we were able to get dental care for this country. We were able to make sure that nine million Canadians, including three million seniors, will have access to dental care. They are voting against that. They are against that. Are they against pharmacare? Are they against the other fruits of co-operation that come from—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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- Feb/29/24 2:49:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, access to medication for diabetes is not just a question of social justice, it is a question of saving lives. It is a question of prevention. It is a question of reducing costs enormously across the country. Specifically with Alberta, I have had very constructive conversations with Adriana LaGrange, who has been willing to work, compromise and find that common ground.
Unfortunately, across the aisle, that is not what we see. Today, the leader of the official opposition, the Conservatives, ran away when asked if he would support diabetes medication. He refused to answer whether he would slash contraceptives for women. The Conservatives are already against dental. I would really like to know where they stand on pharmacare.
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- Feb/29/24 2:54:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in the first order, one of the things that is disturbing about what the member is supposing is that if he were in government, and I hope that does not happen, they would interfere in the redaction process and they would be involved in it. We obviously did not do that, particularly not with national security.
The member opposite and I had a conversation about this. First, I suggested immediately that they see the documents at NSICOP. They said that was not good enough. Therefore, I created an ad hoc committee. The ad hoc committee gave them the opportunity not only to see the documents, but put to an independent arbiter whether or not they should be released publicly. We did that together. The documents were released. They are now before us.
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- Feb/29/24 2:58:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Bloc Québécois is always trying to pick a fight.
When I spoke with Minister Dubé from Quebec, it was clear that his objective was to co-operate to find a solution. In our health care system, I think that Canadians and Quebeckers want politicians, elected members, who look for solutions, not pick a fight. That is why I am sure that we will reach an agreement with Quebec.
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- Feb/29/24 2:59:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, this year, for the first time in the country's history, anyone with diabetes and anyone who need contraceptives will get what they need. This is such a historic announcement. It is going to make a difference for a huge number of people across the country, even in Quebec.
Yesterday, I had a good conversation with Minister Dubé about this. I am sure we can reach an agreement with Quebec as well.
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