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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 198

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 16, 2023 10:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 198 - May/16/23
Mr. Dan Mazier
  • May/16/23 6:42:58 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the special order. I just want the record to show that we are considering Bill C-21 at report stage without the constitutional requirement of quorum. I point out that the special order under which we are operating also provides for third reading to be—
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:43:13 p.m.
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There is a point of order from the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • May/16/23 6:43:17 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, the rule is that quorum cannot be called. It does not say how many members are in the chamber or in the MPs' lounges. It could be a large number, or it could be a smaller number. It is just that we cannot call quorum.
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:43:35 p.m.
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It also devolves into the issue of underlining who is in the chamber and who is not in the chamber. It does get into that. There is a point of order by the hon. member for York—Simcoe.
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Mr. Scot Davidson
  • May/16/23 6:43:47 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order on that point of order. Those numbers are part of the member's speech.
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:43:52 p.m.
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Let me deal with the point of order issue. Before members go any further with their points of order, I would remind them that on May 9, the House duly adopted an order prescribing that the Chair not receive any quorum calls after 6:30 p.m. It is after 6:30 p.m. Let us not talk about it because it is part of the order that we are working under. The hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa.
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Mr. Dan Mazier
  • May/16/23 6:44:13 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, debate at second reading also took place without quorum on June 9, June 21 and June 22, 2022. That means that Bill C-21 will have been considered without the constitutional requirement of quorum for every stage of the legislative process in this House. The Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 1985—
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:44:35 p.m.
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I need to interrupt the hon. member. Bringing up quorum is sort of calling for quorum. Members need to be careful in what they are calling for. The hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa.
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Mr. Dan Mazier
  • May/16/23 6:44:45 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 1985 that the requirement of section 133 of the Constitution Act, 1867, and section 23 of the Manitoba—
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:44:56 p.m.
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The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona is rising on a point of order.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/16/23 6:45:02 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, there is an established rule that members are not to reflect on a decision made by the House. The House did decide to have extended evening sittings for the purpose of hearing members who rightly want to speak to the bill, but they are not to reflect on a decision of the House that was made to not require quorum in order to create more time for members to offer their thoughts about the bill on the record. The line of argument that my colleague is adopting makes it harder for the House to adopt such motions in the future, which I think would be very unfortunate because they are critical to providing the space and time for members to put their thoughts on the record about legislation before the House. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for trying to enforce established rules of the House and I support you in continuing to do that.
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:45:53 p.m.
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I am going to remind the hon. member that we cannot call for quorum during this time. We cannot necessarily talk about quorum. I understand that this is probably a part of what his speech actually is. We are running on a little bit of thin ice here. The hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa.
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Mr. Dan Mazier
  • May/16/23 6:46:25 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, in 1985, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the requirements of section 133 of the Constitution Act, 1867, and section 23 of the Manitoba Act, 1870—
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:46:37 p.m.
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The member for Elmwood—Transcona is rising on a point of order.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/16/23 6:46:39 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, I am at a loss as to how to proceed. I think the Speaker has made it clear that the line of argument infringes upon certain rules of the House. I appreciate that the member already wrote his speech. As somebody who does not use notes, and I know that the member knows the content of the bill very well, I just encourage him to get out of his notes and speak to the content of the bill. In this way, he will not be infringing upon the rules of the House or upon your recent ruling.
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:47:07 p.m.
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The hon. member for Calgary Shepard is rising on the same point of order.
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Mr. Tom Kmiec
  • May/16/23 6:47:10 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, you have made a ruling, and members have been given wide latitude by Chair occupants in the past to go back into their speech that they have prewritten, where they have made annotations for themselves. The member is referring, obviously, to a court case. He has a point that he is trying to make. If that other member would just let him finish his point, I am sure he will carry on to the rest of the business that he wants to do. I hear members laughing across the way, but they are given the same latitude to speak to bills. We all bring notes into the House to make a speech. You have made a ruling, Mr. Speaker, so we should just carry on with the debate on Bill C-21.
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:47:42 p.m.
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I believe the hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona is rising on the same point of order.
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Mr. Daniel Blaikie
  • May/16/23 6:47:47 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-21 
Mr. Speaker, I am not laughing. What I would say is that if I wrote a speech before entering the House that infringed upon a ruling of the Speaker or rules of the House, I would expect that, it would not be okay for me to if I breach those rules simply because I wrote it down before coming into the House. I would be expected to adapt to rulings of the Speaker on the fly. The member has a prewritten speech, but if it is infringing upon the ruling of the Speaker, simply having written it down beforehand does not mean that he is allowed to continue.
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The Deputy Speaker
  • May/16/23 6:48:17 p.m.
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The hon. member for Calgary Shepard is rising on the same point of order.
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