44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 31, 2022 10:00AM
- May/31/22 12:44:40 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, some groups experience multiple discriminations at the same time, such as, for example, women from indigenous communities who are under-represented in academic settings. That is just one example. Therefore, an intersectional approach is essential to understanding and addressing the barriers and biases that exclude under-represented groups.
Does the member believe that removing affirmative action may reinforce these biases and further exclude under-represented groups?
68 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:45:14 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I will respond to that with a couple of things. Obviously, as I mentioned, the tribunal had suggested the government had to do a better job of trying to drive diversity and inclusion. The hon. member mentioned that some people, such as women in indigenous groups, have a double challenge. At the end of the day, what I take notice of in this Bloc Québécois motion is that it almost reads as though it is a type of discrimination to encourage individuals who are under-represented to have more status in these chairs. I disagree with that principle.
I think it is also extremely important for universities and that culture to play an important role there. I would like to commend Acadia University. They are doing really important work in this domain. They have great research chairs, some of whom are supported by us, some of whom are being driven by themselves.
To answer her question, institutionally it is important, and to her point, these types of principles need to stay.
177 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:46:16 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, one of the issues that I have been raising is the issue about young people and how young people look to important positions that are in society, such as university chairs or research chairs, and how they can be very inspiring for youths who are of a minority.
I wonder if my colleague could provide his thoughts as to why it is so important that, as we diversify, young people see that these important positions are reflective of Canadian society.
82 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:46:58 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I think the parliamentary secretary has hit it right on the head with the question. I will certainly just elaborate a little bit further.
Regardless what profession might seek to take on in the future, one wants to see oneself reflected and have mentorship in that role. Whether or not that is the diversity that the parliamentary secretary talked about, or indigenous communities or handicapped individuals who have been finding their way here, that is extremely important. That matters in research chairs, and that matters in politics.
That is why we are certainly trying to get even more women involved in politics and more women involved here in Parliament. It extends far beyond the research programs that we are talking about, but he does make a very good point.
131 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:47:40 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am happy to participate in the debate on the Bloc Québécois motion and to have the opportunity to speak to the Government of Canada's commitment to supporting Canada's best and brightest minds, and to highlight Canada's efforts to attract and retain global research leaders.
Talented people conducting scientific research are our primary drivers of discovery, and they provide new knowledge that helps us move forward as a nation. Talented researchers play a critical role in science and research activities by ensuring that Canada has the capacity to make discoveries, tackle challenges and seize research opportunities.
The government is helping Canadian universities attract and retain the best researchers from Canada and abroad to meet the research interests and priorities of the institutions and the country.
The Canada excellence research chairs program aims to position Canadian universities at the leading edge of discovery, building long-term research strengths in areas of strategic importance to Canada. Its prestigious awards are supporting important research in areas such as global food security, which we know is of paramount concern today, big data, green technology and artificial intelligence. A former chair, Dr. Michael Houghton, was jointly awarded the 2020 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for the discovery of the hepatitis C virus.
It is clear that supporting top research talent benefits Canada and all Canadians. That is why in budget 2022 we announced an additional $38.3 million over four years starting in 2023-24, and $12.7 million ongoing, to expand the Canada excellence research chairs program.
The government has recognized that, while supporting established researchers in their endeavours is essential to a strong research community, it is crucial that steps be taken to make Canada attractive to promising early career researchers.
Supporting these early career researchers ensures that a pipeline of highly qualified individuals are available to grow Canada's research activities, which is critical for this country's knowledge economy.
Through its exploration grants, which inspire high-risk, high-reward and interdisciplinary research, the new frontiers in research fund supports early career researchers by design. The proportion of awards granted to early career researchers equals the proportion of applications that are submitted by these emerging scholars, an action that levels the playing field for those who have not yet established an extensive record of research achievement.
The Canada research chairs program supports exceptional emerging researchers in kick-starting their careers, awarding five-year grants valued at $100,000 annually. Each of these early career Canada research chairs comes with an additional $20,000 as an annual research stipend for the first five-year term.
The Canada research chairs program allocates proportionally more chairs to emerging scholars over established scholars who have had the opportunity to establish a record of research achievement. Furthermore, I am happy to say that when budget 2018 announced the creation of 285 new Canada research chairs, the majority were allocated to emerging research.
The government values the critical role played by graduate students and fellows, who are Canada's future researchers, in producing the knowledge, discoveries and innovations that help build a strong future for Canada and the world.
Through the three federal granting agencies, the government is making significant investments to support students and fellows with a range of scholarships and fellowships that make a post-graduate education more accessible to those interested in pursuing higher learning and developing the skills needed for the knowledge economy.
The government has committed to ensuring Canada's next generation of researchers is more diverse. This diversity includes trainees who are at different life stages, including parenthood. Recognizing that research trainees receiving federal scholarships are unable to take advantage of parental leave benefits offered under the EI system, in budget 2019 we expanded the duration of paid parental leave coverage for students and post-doctoral fellows funded directly or indirectly by the federal granting agencies from six months to 12 months. This investment is making a real difference for research trainees, supporting their pathway to careers as highly qualified personnel in Canada.
The government recognized the vital research role played by highly qualified staff and the need to maintain the talent pool during major disruptions caused by the COVID‑19 pandemic.
To mitigate the impact on students, fellows, and research support personnel funded by research grants, the three federal granting agencies have extended the scholarships and fellowships that directly support fellows and have provided additional funding to eligible research grant recipients who indirectly support fellows through salaries and allowances.
The government fully recognizes that in today's rapidly changing world, diverse and inclusive science is essential for maintaining the talent pool that is integral to new discoveries and innovations, and for building the evidence base that we need in order to tackle the big problems facing Canada and the world.
Canada will always be a place where science is valued, independent and encouraged. We understand and cherish the value of scientific freedom. That is why the government is working to provide support to research trainees affected by Vladimir Putin's unjustified invasion of Ukraine with the creation of the special response fund for trainees. We have established this measure as a way of demonstrating our support for Ukraine and to help Ukrainian trainees working in Canada continue their important work. This action contributes to Canada's diverse and inclusive research community, a goal that our government is fully committed to.
There is no doubt that a diverse, inclusive and equitable research community contributes to better scientific research and is essential if we want Canada to reach its full potential. It is also true that many people face systemic barriers that prevent them from fully participating in our country's social and economic life, including in post-secondary institutions.
To underscore the government's commitment to building a diverse, inclusive and equitable research environment, budget 2022 announced new funding to support scholarships and fellowships for promising Black researchers, a group that remains particularly marginalized in Canada's post-secondary research ecosystem. We see this investment as a step forward in ensuring that people from all backgrounds are welcome in the labs, in the field, and in the classrooms, and that Canada remains an inclusive and welcoming society for all, where everyone has the opportunity to participate.
Simply put, we are committed to supporting Canadian science and all the talented individuals belonging to the Canadian science ecosystem. Going forward, the government remains committed to gathering the ideas and talent in our research community to help address the opportunities and challenges we face.
In closing, we must continue to build a more inclusive and stronger Canada. One way of doing it is through the Canada research chairs program.
1125 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:56:41 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I commend my colleague from Vaughan—Woodbridge, whose French is getting better all the time.
Obviously, the Bloc is opposed to any sort of hiring quota and the imposition of such quotas on the basis of the four criteria set out by the Liberal government.
How would the member, who is from the business community, react if his superiors gave him similar instructions and he had to hire people in his sector based on those four criteria?
80 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:57:33 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Rivière-des-Mille-Îles for his question this afternoon.
In society today, we must recognize that there are obstacles or systemic barriers for people in advancing and receiving opportunities. We must continue to break down the barriers that certain communities face in Canada. At the same time, we must encourage diversity within our Canada research chairs. There are ways of doing that. We have identified ways to continue to diversify them while we continue to break down the systemic barriers that exist for particular communities that are marginalized here in Canada.
101 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:58:30 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech and making an effort to speak French.
I get the impression that we are engaging in a dialogue of the deaf. People think that we support discrimination, when the exact opposite is true. We absolutely support better representation of women, cultural communities and so on in institutions.
The main problem, and the reason for our motion, is that some candidates are being excluded from the very beginning of the hiring process. Why not trust the institutions? It is risky to not let people apply. It is all well and good to want the pendulum to swing back, but we must not go too far either. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on that.
125 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 12:59:22 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.
I will say this about the motion the Bloc Québécois brought forward: I agree with denouncing all forms of discrimination. We all agree on all sides of the House that we must always confront, denounce and condemn all forms of discrimination, whether it is anti-Semitism, Islamophobia or others, and the systemic barriers that exist, for example, against Black Canadians in this country. With that, we must continue to put in place programs that reflect and look at the way Canadian society is and where we are today, ensuring that people have opportunities to succeed and have opportunities to do groundbreaking and innovative research.
117 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:00:10 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, people with disabilities face multiple barriers, including those of research chairs, which we are debating today. In order to make academic communities more accessible to people living with disabilities, positive action is needed to improve accessibility.
Does the member believe abolishing affirmative action would undermine the long-standing efforts of people with disabilities?
55 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:00:36 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, looking at the statistics this morning, I saw that the percentage of persons with disabilities who are now participating in the Canada research chairs program has risen to over 5%. I think that is a great effort.
The actions to make sure that Canada research chairs reflect what Canada is about and who we are as a country must continue. We must put in parameters to ensure that we have representation from all groups, that the groundbreaking research these individuals are doing is allowed to continue and that they are provided the resources and tools to continue doing their great work.
103 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:01:41 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, this is a wonderful opportunity to say hello to my constituents in Beloeil—Chambly and to inform you that I will be pleased to split my time with the very distinguished member for Drummond.
We are starting a debate. I am not only talking about here, today. I am talking more generally about society, after a number of years that have been quite turbulent in this regard. We are starting, we must start a crucial debate to question centuries of evolution in scientific knowledge. This knowledge is behind pretty much everything in our daily lives, from health to transportation, not to mention our capacity to adapt to the technological and demographic changes in our world.
I have questions about a number of related issues. Others will have answers to suggest. Mine are no more valid than anyone else's, but it is my duty to put them up for public judgment. Next weekend, the Bloc will be holding a conference on freedom of expression, which will focus on our topic, on academic freedom, freedom of education, and freedom of research. We have already been criticized for our choice of speakers for the conference. We are organizing a conference on freedom of expression that allows people to speak, and we are being told that we should not give a platform to this or that person.
It is rather fascinating, and it shows we have a long way to go.
Yesterday, we introduced anti-scab legislation. It is a bill that deals with collective rights. It is important to talk about collective rights. I am talking about collective representation and the need to ensure that our society is not so completely fragmented into individual rights conveyed outside of institutions, particularly institutions of the state, that this starts to impede rather than contribute to progress. For decades, progress was represented by collective rights. It was collective representation. It was an emergence.
We have seen this for several decades. Nations have been emerging in waves, of sorts, like with the collapse of the Soviet Union or the decolonization of Africa. As a result, communities, nations, groups, and people who identify themselves as groups and act as groups have been emerging. They emerged without denying individual rights, which must always be preserved. Fragmentation is not the best way to preserve individual rights. On the contrary, it is best to build bridges, bridges of solidarity between people who form groups because they have common interests.
Impatience can sometimes lead us to point the finger at institutions. In fact, we recently saw an elected member of another legislature talking up the work of people who had resorted to approaches unworthy of elected officials that even verged on aggressive. Regardless of what was at issue, institutions are being targeted and undermined, and that should worry us. This is an exclusionary approach. Researchers are being condemned. Research subjects are being condemned. Course content is being condemned. Supposed ideology is being condemned. Ideology is being judged as good or bad. What ends up happening is that the conclusions of very high level scientific research are being written before that very high level scientific research has even been done.
Knowledge is under threat. Science and the fundamentals of our societies are under threat. When the government gets involved, supports this kind of thing, gives this kind of thing its blessing, there is a significant risk, which is why we need to have this debate and, as a member said, make sure that it is the nature of the research itself that informs choices, not the nature of the researcher.
At the core of this debate is science. Science does not want to lie, but science is not perfect, of course. It can be mistaken. What was scientific truth 30, 130 or 230 years ago may be true no longer. Science evolves. Research challenges many ideas we took for granted.
The need to move forward comes, of course, with the recognition that, in the past, there will have been choices, decisions, goals, research, results and certainties that suddenly evaporated. However, science remains our best way forward. It has saved lives during the pandemic. It must not be perverted.
This is also true in the social sciences. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, our societies must adapt to the speed of phenomenal technological change, as well as the speed of demographic change, with its multiplication of contacts of all kinds, all of them beneficial. This means intervention or attention is also needed in the social sciences, whether it is the very real phenomenon of racism or any form of discrimination. The very notion of systemic racism must be entrusted to science before it is entrusted to ideology and politics. The real fear of difference or the desire to silence others would in itself be a potential research topic. Information in isolation, where we simply reinforce our convictions by not exposing ourselves to different ideas, and the desire for the survival of a language and a culture could also be interesting and legitimate research topics. They all depend on science, which should not be asked to lie by writing conclusions before the research is completed and the science is ready. However, this is the subject of what I believe to be very serious censorship.
History is no longer taught according to the scientific method because it is often written by the dominant culture or the victor. Quebec's most nationalistic or sovereignist moments and periods have been gradually expunged from its history books. However, history must continue to contribute its share of knowledge, wisdom and collective experience.
It is never a good thing to lie. Lying to oneself is obviously dangerous. Believing one's lies is even more dangerous. We must not make science lie. We must provide science with every opportunity to include everyone, based on the quality of the research project and the researcher's focus. We must let science express itself and continue to contribute to progress.
Ottawa's current policies, or its complacency in some cases, discriminate against potential talent by dictating conclusions and not protecting researchers and teachers. This jeopardizes the very essence of what science should be. In doing so, it jeopardizes the well-being of society.
In the name of democracy, knowledge, science and diversity itself, which must be enhanced by sound science, we ask Parliament to come to its senses.
1070 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:10:00 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars coming from the federal government to fund over 2,000 very important jobs dealing with research, technology and so forth. When we take at look at Canadian society being as diverse as it is, there is an expectation that the government will try, in the best way, to ensure that these appointments reflect the population.
Could the member provide his thoughts on the importance of society being properly reflected in many different spectrums of our communities, including our post-secondary institutions and their research chairs?
96 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:10:55 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I fully support the notion that institutions of all kinds should be representative of and reflect the extraordinary diversity of the societies in which we live.
Today's debate is not about inclusion. It is about the need to resist the temptation to exclude people, the need to avoid discriminating, even with the best possible intentions, against people who can make a significant contribution to knowledge, science and the betterment of society.
74 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:11:47 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, what I heard today from the leader of the Bloc Québécois was more or less a speech in which he mentioned democratic evolution, scientific evolution, social evolution, the amalgamation of all philosophies together and the impact on society in a country such as Canada.
I have a specific question: How does he see ideology in the world we live in, which is evolving to basically compete with scientific evolution, and others, to change societies?
80 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:12:30 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I would respectfully submit that ideology does not compete with research and science, but rather it comes from research and science. An opinion must be based on some minimal knowledge. Science, research, education and the sharing of these ideas and these possibilities all contribute to the shaping of minds and forming of opinions. As those opinions expand, deepen and develop, they often become an ideology. We are simply saying that ideology derives from knowledge.
76 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:13:19 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.
The under-representation of marginalized groups will not fix itself. Active measures need to be taken to ensure that academia is more inclusive and representative. Why does the member refuse to tackle the root causes of these injustices?
47 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:13:49 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am being told that I refuse to address the root causes of injustice, whereas I am suggesting that we take a positive approach, not a negative one. I am suggesting that we take an approach that will rally people around this diversity. I am suggesting that there be a set of incentives, including financial ones, to help ensure this extraordinary diversity is better represented.
Discrimination and intimidation is out there now, with stickers on doors, calls, attempts to exclude people from faculties, research projects being impeded. I do not think this contributes to anything positive.
98 words
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:14:35 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today following my distinguished colleague, friend, member for Beloeil—Chambly and leader, in that order.
I also want to acknowledge the exceptional work that my colleague from Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques has done on the research chairs file, work that is behind the opposition day we are presenting today.
The motion reads as follows:
That: (a) the House denounce all forms of discrimination; (b) in the opinion of the House, (i) research is necessary for the advancement of science and society in general, (ii) access to the Canada Research Chairs Program must be based on the candidates' skills and qualifications; and (c) the House call on the government to review the program's criteria to ensure that grants are awarded based on science and not based on identity criteria or unrelated to the purpose of the research.
Regarding point (a), as we often say in Quebec, no one is against apple pie. The proposal is easy to accept. As for point (b), it is hard to be against that either.
I think that what the motion proposes makes perfect sense.
I would like to make one thing clear right from the start, because I can already see the pernicious insinuations and attacks coming. We are not against equity, diversity and inclusion. In short, we are not against the principle. Rather, we are in favour of finding solutions and potentially implementing policies that will lead to the intended objective, which is equity, diversity and inclusion. Solutions do exist. Some are well thought out; others, less so. There is always a bit of work to do to improve things. That is why we are here, and that is the spirit of our motion today.
First, how did we get to this point?
The first instinct may be to blame a current movement that is fighting hard to restore some degree of social justice, but we must dig a bit deeper and do more research.
In 2003, a group of eight academics from across Canada filed some human rights complaints. These complaints alleged that the Canada research chairs program discriminated against individuals who are members of the protected groups set out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. An agreement was proposed in 2006, which required that the program implement specific measures to increase representation of members of the four designated groups, namely, women, persons with disabilities, indigenous peoples and visible minorities. The agreement clearly did not work because it was made a federal court order in 2017.
You can try to fix as many cracks as you want in a house, but what ultimately needs to be fixed is the bad foundation. I think that we need to do the long-term work to address the issue of lack of representation of designated groups in research programs. We too often forget that things take time these days and that shortcuts are inadequate and are a bad way to achieve certain specific objectives.
In today's case, this involves facilitating and promoting access to post-secondary education for under-represented groups and getting more young people from different backgrounds interested in the programs that lead to research.
Without a doubt, this will take time. However, it will lead to much more lasting results that will visibly improve over time and a method that will call for occasional improvements. In the long run, we will be able to benefit more from diversity in our research chairs. We will not suffer the disadvantages of so-called positive discrimination, which, as I said earlier, are in fact mere shortcuts that will only compound the problems in the very short term.
The proof that the cart is being put before the horse in terms of achieving the objectives of equity, diversity and inclusion, or EDI, is the fact that more and more job postings for university-level teaching positions no longer even require a Ph.D. This argument alone should be enough to show that we are not on the right path and that we have chosen the wrong one, and to make us understand that the solution lies elsewhere and that we need to dig a little deeper to find better, more effective and certainly more lasting solutions.
Another problem that I see is the way that it hinders university autonomy. Universities are places for the development of knowledge and learning. That is where we learn how to think critically. We need to allow people to exchange ideas, to challenge each other and to have open discussions, while not leaving any room for censorship. We have seen many abuses in this area recently, but that is not really the focus of today's discussion.
Rather, my concern is with the criteria imposed by the federal government in an area of jurisdiction that belongs not just to Quebec and the provinces, but also very directly to institutions of higher learning. Let us be clear: the Canada research chairs program is a way for the federal government to impose its views on the entire academic community.
On April 2, Professor Yves Gingras wrote in Le Devoir about universities suffering from provincial underfunding that cannot afford to turn up their noses at tens of thousands of dollars available from research chairs to pay for these new professors.
Not all university presidents are acting in bad faith. They are faced with a certain reality, and most of the time they have no choice but to stay silent, turn a blind eye, and take the money by accepting guidelines and criteria. Sometimes they agree with them. Often, I am sure of it, they do not quite agree. This is how they slip into a trap that quickly becomes a costly, vicious cycle.
The other problem with this measure is the recruitment pool. I will now take my colleagues back to Quebec, which is home to the Université du Québec network that is well established in various regions: we have a Université du Québec in Rimouski, in Chicoutimi and in Trois-Rivières, and I am proud to say that we have a beautiful campus in Drummondville, thanks in part to my leader and colleague.
Imagine the challenge and the major issue the recruitment pool would represent for institutions located outside large urban areas like Toronto should EDI criteria be imposed. I draw my colleagues' attention to a recent column by Jean-François Lisée in Le Devoir, published on April 7 and easily found on the Internet, in which he draws a parallel. Imagine being able to require that the ratio of francophone professors and researchers in Canada match the representation of francophones across Canada, 23%, or else universities would not receive federal funding. Imagine the headache that recruiting the required percentage of francophone professors would cause for universities out west and even elsewhere.
That is basically the issue here. Virtue is all well and good, but there is also reality, and we have to take that into account. We cannot start standardizing everything. We cannot set up criteria across the board and introduce hiring processes to achieve instantaneous equity overnight. There are processes that take time.
In closing, my colleagues need to understand that we fully support the principle of equity, diversity and inclusion. However, we believe that it must be applied thoughtfully, not simply in response to pressure from activists who demand immediate results, regardless of collateral damage or effectiveness.
For example, fostering inclusion can be done by giving preference to candidates from groups that are under-represented, but equally qualified. This has been done in the past in a variety of settings, such as academia, to achieve gender equity.
There is still a long way to go, but the work has begun. It may not be a perfect solution, but it is a solution that works. We need to focus on solutions that work, not utopian goals.
1333 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- May/31/22 1:24:54 p.m.
- Watch
Madam Speaker, I am wondering if the member could provide me with his idea of what systemic racism looks like and how we could address those barriers without concrete measures like this. This is a measure that the university administrators took upon themselves in order to take a concrete step toward ensuring more diversity and inclusion. They are going to see how it works. We should give them the space to do that work as autonomous institutions.
What does your understanding of systemic racism look like, and how do we address it without measures such as these?
97 words
All Topics
- Hear!
- Rabble!
- add
- star_border
- share
- menumenu
- notificationsnotifications
- home
- mailmail
- searchsearch
