44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 31, 2022 10:00AM
- May/31/22 10:23:03 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think that my colleague from Winnipeg North misunderstood my speech. The debate is not about the importance of diversity. We recognize the need for diversity, inclusion and, of course, equity.
What we are saying is that the basic criterion that must take precedence when selecting candidates for Canada Research Chairs is excellence. This criterion should not be based on identity, which sometimes has nothing to do with the context of the research.
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- May/31/22 10:24:34 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think the debate is taking an unhealthy turn, and that is not what the Bloc Québécois wants today.
We are asking that the primary criterion for the recruitment of candidates for Canada research chairs be excellence. The best example I can give is this. The policies of Quebec universities have achieved greater representation for women without any federal government meddling.
We recognize the need for equity, diversity and inclusion. However, in the event of equally qualified candidates, although the government may favour certain groups of people, identity should not be the primary criterion. The excellence of the candidates for federal government research chair grants and the quality of their applications must be the primary considerations.
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- May/31/22 11:01:11 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.
We all agree that we need to increase representation within our institutions for visible minorities, women and people with disabilities, but we have to do it the right way.
Does my colleague not believe it is better to engage in positive discrimination based on a criterion that, for equal or comparable qualifications, favours certain minority candidates rather than disqualifying certain candidates outright?
I feel it is important that we address this fundamental issue. The problem we have today, with all due respect to the House, is that certain candidates are being disqualified outright. In my view, you cannot right a wrong by creating another wrong.
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on that.
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- May/31/22 12:58:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech and making an effort to speak French.
I get the impression that we are engaging in a dialogue of the deaf. People think that we support discrimination, when the exact opposite is true. We absolutely support better representation of women, cultural communities and so on in institutions.
The main problem, and the reason for our motion, is that some candidates are being excluded from the very beginning of the hiring process. Why not trust the institutions? It is risky to not let people apply. It is all well and good to want the pendulum to swing back, but we must not go too far either. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on that.
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- May/31/22 1:25:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, those are two different things. My colleague talked about systemic racism, and I think that is an issue that can be dealt with separately. However, my colleague raised a very important point in her question. We should let universities manage the hiring of professors.
Targets can be set. Universities can be asked to ensure that they achieve a certain representation and make room for under‑represented groups. They can be told to favour candidates from these under‑represented groups, in the event of equally qualified candidates. However, imposing criteria is a very slippery slope and very dangerous.
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- May/31/22 3:03:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, academic research is essential to the advancement of science, and it greatly enriches our societies. It is critical that the process for hiring research chairs be based solely on the candidates' qualifications and the nature of their research.
However, in the Canada research chairs program, Ottawa forgoes this quest for excellence and prioritizes diversity considerations. Does the minister agree that discrimination should never influence the assessment of competence?
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- May/31/22 5:09:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would first like to thank my colleague for his comments.
I think that the topic we are discussing today is a very important one. Even though it is hard to find more diversity and candidates, we need to keep trying. Saying that we are not going to do it because it is hard is not an excuse that I can understand.
I know that we can do better and that we can create more inclusive spaces. I would like us to continue working together to find qualified candidates, because I know that they are out there.
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- May/31/22 5:10:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this motion seems to be based on a faulty understanding of who gets appointed. There is an assumption that when affirmative action policies are in place, it means that a less qualified candidate is put forward. In fact, what it actually means is that we get a larger pool of qualified candidates and that we are removing barriers for those people who have traditionally been marginalized.
I would love to hear the member's comments on that.
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- May/31/22 5:10:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have been watching the member for Victoria engage in this debate throughout the day. I really appreciate the approach she is taking of recognizing that we need to do better, as well as the fact that this is actually much more of a conversation about how quickly, for example, if we see a woman such as myself or herself be appointed, we see the headlines become that it is not merit-based.
We are qualified individuals. We are educated. To suggest that when we have more diversity and intersectionalities represented, candidates are all of a sudden less qualified I personally think is, first of all, ridiculous and also disheartening, hence why I mentioned it in my comments. I know we have very qualified people who have been overlooked for far too long. We are creating systems that work for more Canadians, for more talent, and that is why dismantling the systemic issues is instrumental.
I would like to assure the member that I will keep fighting to ensure that we do better.
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