Senator Plett: Obviously, you’ve gone to the same school of economics as Justin Trudeau. The budget doesn’t balance itself, even if you and he believe that it does.

Leader, I will put this on the record because it is important. Liberal MP Ken MacDonald said that a constituent called him and said that she could no longer afford home heating oil. She said:

I go around my house with a blanket wrapped around me. The only time I get to have beef or chicken is if my niece or nephew invites me out to Sunday dinner.

Senator Gold, this is as a result of your regressive carbon tax. The MP tells this story to everyone he meets in the Trudeau government. He said:

At first, some people said to me, like, there’s nobody living like that . . . And I said, “If you don’t think people are living like that, you’re not living in the real world.”

I would suggest that to you and to the Prime Minister as well, Senator Gold: If you don’t believe that people are living like that because of this, you are not living in the real world.

Leader, I agree; the Prime Minister is not living in the real world. A year ago, 39 members of his cabinet spent over $46,000 on catering for a three-day trip to discuss affordability — $46,000 to discuss affordability. Is that an example of living in the real world, Senator Gold; yes or no?

Senator Plett: Senator Boehm, many of us fondly remember Senator Fraser in this chamber — a good Liberal senator. I struggle with the “good Liberal,” but, nevertheless, I fondly remember her and miss her. She was always concerned about the finances. Again, it’s surprising, given her Liberal leanings. She always asked, “What is the financial impact? Is there travel involved in this?”

If you could, please give us an idea of what the committee is planning, whether there’s an African trip involved in this, or the kind of money involved. Thank you.

Senator Boehm: Thank you, senator. The committee will meet and determine what it should do. The plan is as sketched out in the language of the motion — to look at all aspects — and I imagine that as we discuss the aspects, we would look at all options, including whether travel might be required or not.

I would only add that this committee has not travelled very much. It’s undertaken the recent travel to Washington in the pursuit of a study last December, and more recently to Europe. Before that, the last time the committee travelled was before I joined the Senate, so it was in 2017. I don’t think ruling out travel is the way to go. Perhaps looking at it in the context of whether and how it makes sense, we will be looking at that. But there is no decision. If I could only add that, on our last travel — as you will recall, senator, with the guidance of the Subcommittee on Senate Estimates and Committee Budgets and the Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration Committee — we reduced the number of senators and we all flew economy class on that trip. We are mindful of costs, and we are mindful of whether this would be a necessity or not. Thank you for the question.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, as Prime Minister Trudeau shows no sign of understanding how his inflationary carbon tax is hurting families all across our country, it is clear that he is not interested in listening to Canadians — or even to one of his own members of Parliament.

Senator Gold, a Liberal MP from Newfoundland and Labrador, Ken McDonald, said this about the carbon tax in an interview earlier this month: “We are punishing the rural areas of our country and the most vulnerable people in our society.”

He is right, leader. Why doesn’t the Prime Minister understand this? Is it because he has never had to worry about how he will feed himself or wonder how he will pay for a roof over his own head? Is that why he won’t axe the tax?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question for Senator Boehm, if he would take it.

Senator Boehm: Of course.