Senator Downe: Obviously, the policy has changed. Years ago, when I was on CIBA, the position was quite clear. Senators participated, and, as you stated, there are always reasons some people can’t go. There was never a full allocation. However, I can’t understand how the committee can write the report when some of the committee members participated in all the meetings, and others did not. Notwithstanding they may read the transcript or look at it on Zoom, there are nuances that are missed. How do you intend to square that when you write your final report?

Senator Boehm: Well, thank you Senator Downe. This study has been going on for some time — since April of last year. In my view, all committee members have had a pretty good exposure to various witnesses. I don’t have the data in front of me in terms of how many witnesses we have seen and heard, but I do think that writing the report with all the data and information we have received will not be that onerous and that senators will be prepared.

Also, on the trip that I had mentioned, we are not looking at substitute senators either. So everyone has been exposed to this one way or the other.

Senator Downe: This is my last question. I would urge caution here. The Senate’s foundation, reputation, is on the great work the committees have done, all the way back to the various reports done over the years — former Senator Croll’s report on poverty, for example. They travelled extensively outside of Ottawa and made a tremendous impact on changing poverty levels in Canada when the recommendations were adopted by various governments over the next number of years.

I guess the question is — and Senator Kutcher would know if this is still politically correct or not to say — if we are throwing the baby out with the bath water. In my opinion, we have to be excessively cautious here that we are not reducing cost at the very foundation of the Senate. Are you concerned that in future studies all committee members should travel?

Senator Boehm: I agree with you, Senator Downe.

Senator Downe: I was concerned with your comments that the full committee is not participating. It has been a long-time tradition in the Senate that, assuming senators participated in committee meetings here in the chamber and committee rooms, they would all participate on the complete study. Are there some senators who haven’t participated in the Senate? Is that why they are not going? Are there some who do not want to go? Have there been restrictions imposed?

Senator Boehm: Thank you, Senator Downe. One of the recommendations that had been made at the first pass that we made, both to SEBS and then to CIBA, was that we should perhaps look at reducing the number of senators.

In practice, what happened on the Washington trip was that only half the committee attended, and I suspect — as is often the case, whether because someone is ill or has a timing conflict — we will be looking at reduced numbers. But the idea, when making a second attempt at this, was that we would look at a reduced number.

In my view, we should budget for the complete committee to go because every senator — every member — is equal. However, in practice, this has not always been the outcome.

Hon. Percy E. Downe: I have a question as well.