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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 301

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
April 17, 2024 02:00PM
Context: House Hansard - 301 - Apr/17/24
Mr. Michael Barrett
  • Apr/17/24 3:50:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is not an answer to the question I asked. Does Mr. Firth have any knowledge of or involvement in the reviews for the ArriveCAN app on either the Apple store or the Google Play store being artificially amplified or paid for, any knowledge at all?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:50:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know those services exist, but I have no knowledge of whether or not they were executed.
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Mr. Michael Barrett
  • Apr/17/24 3:50:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will give the remainder of my time to the member for Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, please.
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Mrs. Kelly Block (Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, CPC)
  • Apr/17/24 3:50:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the procurement ombudsman found that 76% of resources named in bids on the ArriveCAN contracts did no work and were switched out for other companies. He termed this “bait and switch”, which is often used to sub out expensive subcontractors for cheaper ones, allowing the middlemen to take home more profit. Did Mr. Firth switch out any of his proposed resources on the ArriveCAN application contracts?
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Mr. Kristian Firth (Partner)
  • Apr/17/24 3:51:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we were part of the 24% that did not. Every resource we proposed that were called out for task authorizations were given to the Government of Canada.
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Mrs. Kelly Block
  • Apr/17/24 3:51:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, through you, has Mr. Firth ever engaged in bait and switch in any of his contracts with the Government of Canada?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:51:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we were asked to replace resources all the time depending on whether there were discrepancies with their experience, whether they were not working very well, or whether or not they needed to move on to another project. They are contractors, so we replace resources frequently under the guidance of the client.
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Mrs. Kelly Block
  • Apr/17/24 3:51:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General found in her ArriveCAN report that Mr. Firth sat at the table with public servants to draft the requirements for a contract worth $25 million that he was later awarded and, thereby, was setting the price. Through you, what are the names of those public servants?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:52:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that name was provided in the questions, and the government official's name was Diane Daly.
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Mrs. Kelly Block
  • Apr/17/24 3:52:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is in direct contradiction to the name that was submitted by Mr. Firth as a direct answer to this question to me at a committee last month. Why is the answer changing today?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:52:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the question posed to me was who did I speak with in May of 2022, prior to the contract award, and that was the procurement lady, which was the name I gave. Subsequently, there was a question by the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan that was posed very similar to the hon. member's, which was who was I engaged with at CBSA when discussing suggestions, and that was Diane Daly.
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Mrs. Kelly Block
  • Apr/17/24 3:53:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General also found that the CBSA advised KPMG, a multinational consulting firm, that it would be a subcontractor under Mr. Firth's two-person middleman company. At committee, the deputy auditor general confirmed this would allow Mr. Firth and GC Strategies to take an additional 20% cut of the contract, despite not even doing the work to get KPMG as a subcontractor. How many times have public servants provided him with subcontractors?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:53:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I do not know the answer to that question. It is common, once one has an existing contract in place, for a client to engage those services to help bring on a subject matter expert they would not otherwise have access to, or typically, because contracting takes quite a long time, to actually bring them in if it is a time-sensitive deliverable.
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Mrs. Kelly Block
  • Apr/17/24 3:54:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will take that to mean that public servants have provided him with subcontractors many times.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:54:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, again, I am not being elusive. I do not know the answer to that question.
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The Speaker
  • Apr/17/24 3:55:03 p.m.
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The hon. member for Beauport—Limoilou.
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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)
  • Apr/17/24 3:57:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will begin this question period by reminding members of some of the things I said in my speech last week. Sadly, we are dealing with an historic situation caused by various issues. One of those issues is the inconsistencies in some of the information we received from the witness, as well as the inconsistencies between that information and the information we received from other sources. Then, there is the time it took to receive written responses and requested documents, which was unusual and, in some cases, took as long as 18 months. Having said that, I must point out that the responses were received, although they were delayed, and it took some time and urging. As I was saying, the purpose of my questions today will be to understand the processes, and to identify flaws in the public service, how it operates and its procedures. I am not a court, and have no intention of being one. I urge members not to become a people's court or be taken in, and focus on our role: find flaws in the system, organization and processes in order to correct those flaws. It is important to specify that these flaws have been around for a while. Several processes were put in place years ago, including by Ms. Ambrose, the Conservative minister at the time. Here is my first question: I would like to know what skills and training are needed to become a talent recruiter.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:57:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe I understood the question. There is a series of things. There is building a network, which can be, just through years of experience, working with clients, working with resources, understanding their skill sets, understanding their availability and understanding what their per diems are. There are a lot of things that have to be put into place to understand if somebody is perfect for a role. Again, do they have the right experience? Do they have the right skill set? On top of that, as well, is understanding how they respond to RFPs. We are a small shop. I mean, I do not think that is a surprise to anybody here. Myself and my business partner, we had to understand how to look for RFPs on Buyandsell.gc.ca, how to respond to them, how to recruit for them and how to fulfill our obligations once the contracts have been awarded. Then there is invoicing and time sheets, everything that goes from a 360° desk.
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Mrs. Julie Vignola
  • Apr/17/24 3:58:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is hard to make a name for oneself, to become known in the huge government machinery. I would like to know how the witness' company has managed to establish itself as a key player in recruiting talent for the Government of Canada.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 3:58:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I understand the question. I am not sure we are recognized as a benchmark. We were in a good position to respond and help with the ArriveCAN application, with having resources already on the ground and already having them CBSA security-cleared, which, in itself, takes a long time. However, that is not typical. At that point, I believe we beat out competition from two to three other firms. Members heard in testimony recently from AWS, Microsoft and BDO that they did not have the capacity to build the app. Although I understand it may look like we are the benchmark, we are not recognized as the benchmark with the federal government.
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