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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Nov/3/22 12:40:38 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am pleased to see my colleague's list of agencies that are helping seniors across Canada. That being said, in Quebec City there is another organization: le Repos du soldat. It is requesting a parcel of land that belongs to the Department of National Defence, a department that gave land to an anglophone school in a city that is 97% francophone. Why is an anglophone school in a francophone community getting preference over our veterans?

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Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia

Nov/3/22 12:41:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague raises a very interesting point. Earlier I was talking about the Senneville Lodge, an asset belonging to Veterans Affairs Canada. A local association wanted to acquire the land in order to build seniors residences with a focus on veterans. However, there is a process to go through when the government wants to divest its assets. It is a rather objective and complex process. In the case my colleague raises, I am not aware of how this unfolded. I am sorry, I cannot comment.

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Mr. Alistair MacGregor (Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, NDP)

Nov/3/22 12:42:14 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, earlier this year, I participated in a Vancouver Island motorcycle run for homeless vets, and the funds we raised were given to Cockrell House, Homes for Heroes and the Legion. I am just wondering if my colleague can offer some thoughts on why, with this problem and in this day and age, we are still relying on the efforts of individuals to raise funds to address this problem. Does he have any comments on that? This problem is so perennial but we are still relying on the efforts of individuals. With no resources of their own, they are trying to highlight this issue and do the work that governments should be doing.

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Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia

Nov/3/22 12:42:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as I mentioned in my speech, budget 2021 and budget 2022 did include some infusions of funding specifically to address the problem of homeless veterans, so yes, there is funding. I am sure there are areas where there could be more funding, but citizens step in even when there is ample government funding. We see it in the hospital sector, for example, where foundations are created because people want to help. This is an important priority and it deserves a great level of government support.

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie (Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, CPC)

Nov/3/22 12:43:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to recognize the residents of the riding I represent, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, for all the efforts they have put into Remembrance Day, which is coming upon us. I will be splitting my time with the member for Yorkton—Melville. There is no doubt in my mind that our military has a proud heritage, not only for service on the battlefield and for those times in peacekeeping, but also behind the scenes. Many others in the House have shared their own personal stories of the exchange between Canadian military members and civilians, and I am reminded of my own mother, who was living in Scotland during World War II. She also interacted with Canadian soldiers who had travelled overseas. They had left their own homes and families and recognized the devastation in the war-torn country of Scotland, and they gave freely. They gave dolls, candy and food to those who were in need. This discussion about homelessness for veterans breaks my heart, as I know what Canadian soldiers have done on and off the battlefield. How then do we treat our veterans? Right now, the only word I can think of is “betrayal”. Just recently, our Canadian Armed Forces returned back from Afghanistan, and I think about the code and the honour they live by, and how it must be for them to know they left people in Afghanistan, interpreters and their families, and to feel that betrayal by their own country. Our Canadian Armed Forces are under duress. Right now there is a housing crisis in the Canadian Armed Forces, and now we get a report about veterans who are homeless. As I said earlier, I am very passionate about this subject, and I am deeply wounded to be reading this report. There are 5,000 veterans who are homeless across this country, and that is just from this report that we have received. As we sit in this chamber, we get reports from the ombudsman; we get reports from our own Parliamentary Budget Office; we get reports from the committee and recently the Auditor General on top of this report, and it is clear this government has not done anything for veterans. It has failed veterans, according to the Auditor General. I will read from a report on Veterans Affairs by the Auditor General. [Veterans Affairs] actions did not reduce overall wait times for eligible veterans. The department was still a long way from meeting its service standard. Implementation of initiatives was slow. Data to measure improvements was lacking. Both the funding and almost half of the employees on the team responsible for processing applications were temporary. As a result, veterans waited too long to receive benefits to support their physical and mental health and their families’ overall well-being. This was in a report from the Auditor General, and combined with all the other reports and the 5,000 veterans who are out on the street homeless, it is appalling. What is the government doing about this? All we hear is about money being thrown at the problem, but no concrete solutions. I believe that politics is a performance-based industry, and if people do not perform, they should not be there. Seven years the government has been in power, and time and time again it has failed veterans and the existing military. The minister is asleep at the wheel right now. Leadership starts at the top. He should take ownership, take responsibility and start looking after our vets. I could go on with quotes and I could on with stats, but what good is it with a government that is not going to listen? This year so far, VAC has over $921 million in lapsed funding. That is money that was set aside for VAC in the budget but was not used to support veterans. Money is not the problem. Someone has to pull their finger out here. Someone has to start getting the job done and start looking after our vets. There is a morale problem here, not only in the existing military but for people who have served. We are on the verge of Remembrance Day, and when people take that moment of silence and bow their heads to think about the fallen soldiers, we need to think about those who have served and who are surrounding us now, and what we are doing for them. Money does not solve every problem. It is about getting the job done. It is about strong leadership, and it is about recognizing the problems. I am very passionate about this. I am very upset about this subject. Again, I could rattle off statistics and numbers, but the consistency throughout this is that the government has failed its veterans. That is an exact quote from the Auditor General. What are we going to do? What does a committee do when it sits there and produces reports, and works together, as I do with my colleagues from the Bloc or from the NDP, across the aisle? It is a good committee; we have achieved a lot, but from there, nothing gets done. There is no recognition. Veterans are being failed time and time again. I think about the soldiers who looked after my mother, who helped my grandmother, who fought alongside my grandfather in Holland to liberate a country that was not even theirs. They recognized that it was the right thing to do. The question I have to ask my colleagues is, what is the right thing to do for veterans? What is the right thing to do for our veterans? Who is going to lead the charge? Who is going to fix the problem? Right now, the minister is asleep at the wheel, not doing his job. I am disappointed. Not only am I disappointed, but my fellow colleagues in the Conservative Party are disappointed. My colleagues in the committee are disappointed. Not only do we deserve better, but our veterans deserve better.

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Mr. Wayne Long (Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.)

Nov/3/22 12:53:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I cannot say there is a lot I agree with in the member's speech. In my riding of Saint John—Rothesay, I was pleased that under the veterans connection to home program we announced over $450,000 to identify and assist veterans. I want to tell a little story about 2014, when I was not a politician and was really not involved in politics at all. I was watching one of the TV channels, and the then minister of veterans affairs, Mr. Fantino, had refused to meet with veterans on the Hill. I will never forget the response from those veterans. I dug a little deeper and found that was the government that cut call centres for veterans and made cuts on the backs of veterans. Does the member opposite agree with what happened to veterans under the Conservative government?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

Nov/3/22 12:54:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, again we go back in history here, with the Liberal government trying to paint its problems with the previous government and failing to take responsibility for the job it was elected to do. The government that is in power has bragged about opening up offices, but the service has gotten worse. The wait times have increased. The number of issues that are brought forward has increased. The number of vets who are waiting to get served has increased. The member should give me a real question.

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Mr. Chris Lewis (Essex, CPC)

Nov/3/22 12:55:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I really appreciate my hon. colleague's compassion and his passion for this subject. I agree with basically everything he said in his speech. Would my colleague agree with me that a lot of the reason we cannot get more young men and women into our military is the lack of housing and the morale issue we face today? Is that not a certain driver of why we have such low rates?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

Nov/3/22 12:55:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, sometimes, when I look at my hon. colleague, I feel like I am looking at myself. Yes, the number one conversation I had at the 50th anniversary of the Snowbirds with some of the people who are presently serving was about the issues we are talking about when we are talking about the Canadian Armed Forces. I turned the question onto them, and I asked them what challenges they are facing. They said housing. Housing is one of the number one problems they are facing. Governments do not build housing unless it is for the military, and it is not doing that. That is a big challenge that the government is facing and, again, doing nothing about.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Nov/3/22 12:56:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague very much. I was very touched by his speech. It was one of his great speeches, and it is a real pleasure to work with him on the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. I am reminded of something that happens every year. On November 11, we all go and lay wreaths and pay tribute to our veterans. Then the next day, we are back in the House, back in committee, trying to move things forward but not getting anywhere. I am not saying that things were better or would be better under a Conservative government, but we have here a report with great recommendations and none of them have been implemented. Would my colleague care to comment on that?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

Nov/3/22 12:57:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to recognize my colleague and all his hard work and passion for getting good service. I will say that this committee would be better under a Conservative government, so I thank him for giving me that opportunity. I know my colleague and I share the same feeling, because I shared it in my speech. We are disappointed. We are upset. We work so hard. We commit time to look after our veterans, and then nothing gets done. When we get reports back that nothing gets done, it feels like we are not being heard. Those numbers, those vets, those stats are people. They are not getting the service.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (Yorkton—Melville, CPC)

Nov/3/22 12:58:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in a recent take-note debate on mental health, I spoke about our veterans, who have unique challenges that impact their well-being and mental wellness and that very few civilians face. They embody the emotional and mental toll of having been deployed to many theatres of war, sometimes for peacemaking or peacekeeping, where they and their comrades face peril, injury and death and where they participate in and witness violence that they cannot and do not want to begin to share with anyone outside of those who have also had that lived experience. Too many have experienced mental, physical and sexual abuse from those they thought would be their mentors and have their backs no matter what. Many come home with physical and/or mental and emotional injuries after serving and they struggle to cope. They struggle on a whole other level as they start to realize they are failing in their relationships with their spouses and children. Many struggle with trying to fit into a civilian world, where, from their life experience and perspective, they have trouble finding their place. Then there is a challenge that is so counterintuitive and disturbing to me that it grieves my heart and keeps me awake. It is the added injury that sanctuary trauma inflicts on so many of our veterans. Sanctuary trauma is what happens to the spirit and mind of veterans when they experience the failure of the government to fulfill its promise to take care of them and their families. This happens while they serve and put their lives on the line and when they choose to leave or retire or are released due to injuries that, in the mind of their superiors, prevent them from any form of continued service in the Canadian Armed Forces. Having served now for seven years on the veterans affairs standing committee under multiple ministers and ombudsmen, everything from homelessness and mental wellness to seamless transition and the growing backlogs has been studied multiple times in different ways. Recommendations on top of recommendations have been made in reports that sometimes do not get the proper response from the government. The recent report from the Auditor General reinforces the need for VAC to have clear paths and metrics to determine its outcomes. The bureaucracy is broken. Yes, buckets of money have been announced for veterans, but the processes in place are not capable of getting it out the door. Veteran Affairs Canada is broken, and veterans and their families are experiencing unprecedented levels of sanctuary trauma because of that. Last night, I reached out to four individuals in very different veterans organizations that I deeply appreciate and that are part of those that are making a difference in combatting veteran homelessness. Stephen Beardwood of Veterans House Charity said this to me: If we only treat the symptoms but not the cause, we will have rows of housing with full bank accounts and no one spending the money or living in the accommodations. We have missed an incredible opportunity to change what causes homelessness. We need to change our approach. We must first start by greeting humanity with humanity, not bureaucracy and political solutions. I am hopeful one day soon we will embrace change as an opportunity to grow.” He says in the end, “Imagine if instead of wading into the stream daily to rescue drowning victims, we instead went upstream and kept them from falling in. Alan Mulawyshyn, the deputy executive director of Veterans' House Canada, is actually in Toronto today at a three-day Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness conference, where they are having a veteran homelessness breakout sessions stream for the very first time. His words for me today were to remind Parliament of its all-party motion of June 2019, which set the goal to both prevent and end veteran homelessness in Canada by 2025. Debbie Lowther, the CEO and co-founder of VETS Canada, emailed me last night to say: [A]ll levels of government must come together in a non-partisan way and commit to addressing Veterans’ homelessness. It’s not enough to talk about the issue; we need action, not words. And we don’t need more research. A big step in the right direction would be to provide sufficient funding to those on the front lines trying not only to confront the problem but to prevent it. Policymakers should consult these groups and Veterans with lived experience to ascertain the greatest needs. And listen to what they are told. The problem will only worsen due to the nationwide housing crisis and the rising cost of living. Organizations such as VETS Canada are no longer recognized as specialized service providers according to the Auditor General’s report. I cannot even understand this. I know Deb and VETS Canada well, and I cannot comprehend any good reason why they are not valued and validated by VAC. Like the United States, it is time for Veterans Affairs Canada to have a catalogue listed of all of these amazing veteran-centric organizations, with veterans helping other veterans, so that veterans can reach out. They will choose the ones they know are the most effective in this country. David Howard, president and CEO of Homes for Heroes Foundation, told me, “[D]eveloping solutions needs to come through partnerships between the municipal, the provincial and federal governments and at the same time private businesses and charity organizations like Homes For Heroes.” He said, as we have heard today, that the Senate published a report stating there were 5,000 veterans experiencing homelessness across Canada, but he believes the number is closer to 10,000. I have to agree, because I am becoming more and more aware of the many homeless veterans in my province alone who are not getting the care they need. He says traditionally our veterans do not self-identify. They are proud and are not using these services because they believe they are for women and children. This is more than just homelessness. It is veterans who are living rough, living in the woods and couch surfing. He also says that a number of our vets are struggling to transition back to civilian life, and the Homes For Heroes program builds tiny home villages with wraparound social supports to address the problem. That means they are coming off the streets into a home, working with social workers and working on the issues that put them on the streets in the first place, and now they are finding a sense of belonging. They then transition out of the program, with the majority of them working full time, and move to permanent housing, making room for more veterans. He says, “We are fortunate to have the support of Veterans Affairs, as they are a partner in supplying funding for our social workers.” CMHC is a partner and is providing funding for builds, but more is needed. He goes on to say, “I've been involved supporting our veterans for 25 years and we have an opportunity to eliminate the issue, but every day that goes by, the problem gets worse, and action is needed immediately.” He says it is a struggle to convince municipal and provincial governments to grant them land access for their projects, and also says they are struggling to find funds at the federal level, as the current government has not implemented housing for homeless veterans in its mandate. It is cheaper to house our veterans and have them work with social workers to move on and transition back to civilian life than it is to have these heroes, who stood on guard for us, living on the streets. I will end my intervention today by reiterating what I believe Stephen, Alan, Debbie and David have said. Imagine if instead of wading into the stream daily to rescue drowning victims, we went upstream and kept them from falling in. Who is serving whom and when? The government is not preventing them from falling in. The broken processes are pushing them in. The intentions expressed in the all-party motion of June 2019, which set the goal to both prevent and end veterans homelessness in Canada by 2025, must be honoured. All levels of government must work together in step with private businesses and charities to succeed. In the case of the federal government’s direct role right now, right here, it has a duty to consult, listen and implement what it hears from the lived experience of veterans’ organizations, which veterans and their families are trusting, by providing sufficient funding that empowers them to do the work that, quite honestly, I do not believe and it clearly appears government cannot accomplish directly. It has a duty to consult, listen and respond to the lived experience of individual veterans and serving members. It has a duty to end the sanctuary trauma that has become increasingly harmful to our veterans over these last seven years. I hear over and over again that we have the highest level of demoralization there has ever been in our Canadian Forces. There is a lack of willingness to even enlist, and veterans are being encouraged to consider options other than care. One comment was made in committee that they can access MAID in 90 days, but it is taking them over 265 days to get the care they need.

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Ms. Louise Chabot (Thérèse-De Blainville, BQ)

Nov/3/22 1:08:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech and for her years of work on the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. I have been wondering about something and am hoping my colleague can enlighten me. Members sit on committees whose job it is to report to the government. We take the time to hear from witnesses and document situations. How is it that a report from 2019 that contains what I believe are very important recommendations can be left on a shelf to gather dust and now members are shaking their heads about how there are apparently some 5,000 homeless veterans in Canada?

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

Nov/3/22 1:09:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as a new member of Parliament in 2016, I was dumbfounded when I went to the veterans affairs standing committee for the first time. A new report had been created in 2014 along those same lines, with all kinds of recommendations agreed to by the entire committee, yet there we were considering to restudy those same issues, and we actually did. I said that I was new but could not understand why we were not taking up the previous reports, looking at what recommendations the government agreed to, studying where they were at and why they were or were not accomplished, and moving forward with them. I agree with the member that there is a lot of frustration when we study a number of these things over and over again. We hear the right answers from stakeholders and veterans organizations on these issues, but somehow they are not getting through.

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Mr. Mel Arnold (North Okanagan—Shuswap, CPC)

Nov/3/22 1:10:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member Yorkton—Melville for her passion for veterans. She has displayed that at committee for a number of years. I think we all are looking forward to getting back to our ridings and participating in Remembrance Day events next Friday, as I certainly am, and attending as many as possible throughout the day to honour our veterans, which we truly need to do and which the government has failed to do. The member mentioned that she questioned why we see report after report but no action. It reminds me of one of the first reports I came across at the fisheries committee. Something was promised decades ago and was promised again a decade later, and the response from the department was that it would develop a plan to develop plans. That sounds like the government, which simply cannot even plan to put a plan together. I would like to hear the member's comments on that.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

Nov/3/22 1:11:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member is basically echoing what we heard from the Auditor General regarding where the current government is in its ability to manage the business of providing for our veterans. Its systems are such that it does not know what is happening and where. Even when it has tried to follow something, it has not put the right metrics in place to truly determine what is happening, and I appreciate that. It is part of why I say the government has a role here, a very important role, but there are areas where I believe small businesses, charities and veteran-centric organizations, which truly understand the dynamics, are the ones we should be empowering to do this work.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Nov/3/22 1:12:32 p.m.
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There is not enough time, so we will go to the vote. The question is on the motion. If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair. The hon. member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Nov/3/22 1:13:07 p.m.
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Pursuant to order made on Thursday, June 23, the division stands deferred until later this day at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

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Mr. Alex Ruff

Nov/3/22 1:13:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I respectfully request a recorded vote.

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Mr. Alistair MacGregor (Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, NDP)

Nov/3/22 1:13:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have two petitions to table in the House today. In the first petition, the undersigned recognize that the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons has been signed by 86 countries and ratified by 66 but not by Canada. They state that as a non-nuclear state, Canada is in the best position to comply with the articles of the TPNW and guide its allies and other nations toward a world free from nuclear weapons. Therefore, they are calling upon the Government of Canada to sign and commit to ratifying the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and to urge allies and other nations to follow suit.

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