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Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-Kent—Leamington, CPC)

May/17/22 11:20:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member just concluded by stating that we need to use every tool in our tool box to fight climate change. The previous parliamentary secretary stated that Canada's emissions are counted by all of the fossil fuels burned here in Canada. I assume that includes our imported fossil fuels, as well. Can the hon. member explain then why the price on pollution applies to Canadian-generated natural gas and oil, and not to imports? Is it because they come into eastern Canada versus western Canada? I wonder if he can help me understand why every tool in our tool box does not include a price on carbon on imported fuels.

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Mr. Terry Duguid

May/17/22 11:21:06 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the price on pollution applies where the fuel is combusted, as the parliamentary secretary before me said. I would just like to point out to the hon. member that I have been watching the Conservative leadership debates, and they are still debating whether climate change is real or not. I know there are some enlightened Conservatives out there who believe climate change is real and that we need to address this existential crisis that is facing us now and will face our children and grandchildren.

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Ms. Niki Ashton (Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, NDP)

May/17/22 11:21:58 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we are discussing today, the climate emergency is here. It is clear that the Liberal government is not doing enough to deal with the emergency of the issue that we are facing. Peguis First Nation in Manitoba has been devastated by unprecedented flooding, which is a clear sign of the climate emergency. As my colleague said, we need to use all tools available to us. Will his government commit to immediate investment in long-term mitigation infrastructure in Peguis, first nations and northern communities that are currently paying the price for the climate emergency? We have put a bill forward on this front, with respect to the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We need all levers of government to support communities in fighting climate change now. Will the government commit to supporting Peguis?

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Mr. Terry Duguid

May/17/22 11:22:51 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are feeling the impacts of climate change up close and personal in Manitoba. My heart goes out to the good people of Peguis and other first nations communities that have been evacuated. We have experienced two “once-in-300-year” floods in the past decade: in 2011 and 2014. As the hon. member will know, many people were evacuated from their homes. Many of them were first nations. That is why, yesterday, the minister introduced a national adaptation strategy that will help us to build resiliency for our communities. It is why we have spent $100 billion, and an additional $9.1 billion for the emissions reduction plan. We not only have to address adaptation, but we have to address the mitigation issue: that is causing these flooding issues the hon. member has brought to our attention.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

May/17/22 11:24:09 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am so fed up with the Liberals' hypocrisy on fighting climate change. I have been listening to them for two to three years in this place. They keep using the words “green transition” and “sustainable development”. At least my Conservative friends do not lie. They are not interested in fighting climate change. They just ignore it. At least they do not pretend. The Liberals could not care less either, but they pretend to be interested. Let us look at their spending. That would be $4.5 billion to buy the Trans Mountain pipeline, $12.6 billion to expand Trans Mountain, $2.7 billion for an accelerated investment incentive, and $750 million for the new fund. Those are the subsidies the Liberals have been handing out to the fossil fuel industry for a few years now. We have never managed to reach the target. Canada is one of the worst performers in the world when it comes to climate targets. That is scandalous. I condemn my Liberal friends' hypocrisy.

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Mr. Terry Duguid

May/17/22 11:25:13 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, like the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay, the Bloc thinks this government is doing absolutely nothing. We have invested $100 billion in climate action. We flattened the curve. The hon. member from Timmins mentioned his view was that the emissions reduction plan was a scam. The World Wildlife Fund, David Suzuki and Andrew Weaver from the Green Party have all praised our plan. They are a little more objective than the member opposite.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/17/22 11:25:51 a.m.
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Before I go to resuming debate, I did not want to interrupt during questions and comments because it takes time away, but I want to remind members they should not be thinking out loud. I would ask them to hold on to their thoughts until they are recognized during questions and comments. Resuming debate, the hon. member for Grande Prairie—Mackenzie.

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Mr. Chris Warkentin (Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, CPC)

May/17/22 11:26:18 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this motion. I should just mention I am splitting my time with the member for Calgary Centre. I think today it is important for us to be clear about what is being debated. The NDP has a motion that references the high cost of gasoline, but it does not suggest what could be done. They are actually suggesting that we should see the prices increase. I think it is good, and I think it is important, for the NDP to be transparent about its position. I think New Democrats have been abundantly clear as to what they want to have happen. They have said that they believe the oil and gas sector in the country of Canada should be shut down. They have been very clear. There is no ambiguity. They have said that the 500,000 jobs should be done away with, and they have an idea as to how they can get them employed in coffee shops or maybe art studios, but they want to see those jobs eliminated. They want to see the energy sector shut down. They also want to see the price of gasoline driven up even further. They have been abundantly clear in that regard, but I think this is a bad strategy. I think this is a path to destruction and hardship for the vast majority of Canadians. The folks I am hearing from in my constituency are desperately concerned about the high cost of living and, over the past number of months, the devastating impact of high fuel prices on household budgets. I live in a rural community. My constituency is a rural and northern community, so many of the folks who are employed in my constituency live in rural communities or they work in rural communities. They drive pickup trucks to get to work. Those are essential vehicles. They cannot take the subway, Uber or a Prius. They have to get into their pickups and they have to get to work, and many of these people are paying up to a day's wages to fill the tank of an essential vehicle to get to their jobs. The NDP and the Liberals have worked together over the past number of months not only to maintain these high prices, but to elevate the price through their additional carbon taxes. As a matter of fact, it is estimated that taxation on gasoline amounts to about 50¢ a litre. Many politicians have talked about how bad it is that there is a high cost for gasoline. It is amazing. There is something we, as politicians, could actually do. As a matter of fact, the Province of Alberta, for a temporary period of time, did something. Its government eliminated some of the gas taxes, which brought relief to households in the province of Alberta. I believe the federal government should take a lesson from that, do what is the right thing to do and make life more affordable for Canadians from coast to coast. Not only does the NDP want to see the price of gasoline go up, as I mentioned, but it wants to eliminate the industry altogether. Let us just think about that for a period of time. If we eliminate the sector in the country of Canada, a number of things would happen. Canadians would continue to need to use oil and gas, so we would import it. From where would we import it? We would import it from the same places every country does that does not import Canadian oil and gas. This means countries such as Russia, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. I can tell members, Canadians and you, Madam Speaker, this, and I am hopeful my colleagues in the NDP and the Liberal Party are listening. I know that Canadians do not want to see oil and gas flowing into Canada from places like Russia, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, which have far lower human rights records and environmental stewardship records. I can tell members that, while the NDP may want to shut down the industry here in Canada, we have seen what happens when other countries attempt this. It means they become dependent on other countries and places for their fuel needs, and they become less able to diversify their own economies. The price of fuel is at an all-time high, and the NDP is suggesting that the solution should be that we shut down the industry. New Democrats say we should shut down the subsidies. As has been articulated by the government, and as has been articulated by the industry, these are actually not the subsidies the NDP would suggest. There are subsidies that take place within Canada relating to the oil and gas sector, and those are the significant subsidies the industry makes to the Canadian population. The taxes collected from the industry to the government in Canada amount to nearly $20 billion. The NDP solution to the challenges that we face today is to shut down the industry, continue to see prices of gasoline rise and shut down the $20 billion in revenue that the industry pays into municipal, provincial and federal coffers. That $20 billion pays for roads, maintenance of our communities, health care systems, schools and universities, as well as the important services that the federal government provides. The NDP's suggestion is that, if we just eliminate this industry, all would be harmonious and we would happily continue on our merry way. The NDP gives no regard to the $20 billion that is invested from the industry every single year. More importantly, the NDP talks about shutting down the industry, and it never talks about the important jobs that the industry creates, whether it is the 500,000 jobs the industry creates directly or the indirect jobs that are created in every community across this country. In the old days, the NDP used to be the defender of the blue-collar worker. It used to be the defender of rural communities. It used to be the defender of the little guy. The vast majority of the people who work in the energy sector in the province of Alberta and throughout the country are exactly the people who the NDP used to represent. Unfortunately, the NDP have now completely abandoned those folks. In a community like mine, where we have a very diversified economy, with oil and gas, agriculture, forestry, a good service sector and a good retail sector, everybody in close proximity understands that their well-being is connected to everybody else's well-being. The retailer knows that if we shut down the energy sector, their energy costs would skyrocket, which they are of course opposed to, but they also understand the importance of their success being connected to the jobs that are created within in our community and the spinoff benefits within our community. The thing the NDP conveniently likes to forget, when they talk about the environment and the need to transition from oil and gas to new energies, is that it would be following the path Kathleen Wynne's government took here in the province of Ontario. It spent billions of dollars— An hon. member: Now, that is a dirty personal attack. Mr. Chris Warkentin: Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague from the NDP—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/17/22 11:35:08 a.m.
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Order, order. I would like to remind members that it is not time for questions and comments. The hon. member has one minute and— An hon. member: Do not ever call me Kathleen Wynne. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay will come to order. There is one minute and six seconds left. The NDP has the first question on this, and I am sure he will be able to get up to ask questions and make comments. An hon. member: Madam Speaker, I am just hurt. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The hon. member for Grande Prairie—Mackenzie has the floor.

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Mr. Chris Warkentin

May/17/22 11:35:39 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I never would have accused the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay of having been a Liberal until recently, when he made that dirty deal with the Prime Minister to continue to drive up gasoline prices and follow the path of Kathleen Wynne, who was trying to shut down the oil and gas and resource sectors, while investing billions of dollars in these concepts of green energy that never came to fruition. The money was wasted in Ontario. The taxes went up to pay for those wasted experiments, and Ontarians still have to rely on traditional energy sources. However, that is exactly what the NDP suggests. As a matter of fact, not only is the oil and gas sector an important investor in our communities, our governments and all the rest of it, but it is also one of the largest investors in clean tech in the country. The unique difference between the oil and gas sector and government investment in clean tech is that the oil and gas sector invests in clean tech that actually results in something beneficial for our communities, whereas there is waste in the government spending on these fronts.

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Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP)

May/17/22 11:37:00 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I listened to my colleague with great amusement. I have great respect for him. It was getting kind of out there, but that is okay. He has a job to do. I would like to ask him about some work we did together while he was committee chair trying to get accountability on the Kielburger brothers because this issue has been brought back up in the public media. I am very concerned about the fact that, in 10 months of trying to get the basic financial information of how many corporations there are, who had the finances and who owned what, we could not get a single clear picture. This was a parliamentary committee and what was obstructing us the whole time was their chief financial officer, Victor Li. We kept being told that he was off sick some place, but they had nobody else to replace them. The hon. member was the chair of that committee, and this was the frustration he faced. This is a children's charity. Children's charities should have pretty clear books. Why were we not able to get basic answers from their chief financial officer, Victor Li, and the rest of that group?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/17/22 11:38:06 a.m.
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I do want to remind members that the questions on the debate should be focused on the motion before the House. I will allow the hon. member to answer, but I do want to remind members that they are to make sure there is relevancy.

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Mr. Chris Warkentin

May/17/22 11:38:25 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, clearly the member was swayed by my speech because he is now changing the subject. I commend him for that. He is right that we were stalled not only by the WE organization but also by the Liberal government in its unwillingness to be transparent. They moved heaven and earth to ensure that the secrets remain secret. I know that the member believes there was information the Canadian taxpayer deserves to know. The corruption that was alleged, and the corruption that was starting to be exposed, never got to see the light of day because of the work of the Liberal Party. That is why I am so concerned about the deal the NDP has struck with the Liberal government to keep the corrupt government in power.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/17/22 11:39:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, many Conservatives kind of live in the past, and we see that in their attitudes toward climate change. The member made reference to the idea of trucks. He gets into the truck, and he takes his drive. It is all that kind of stuff. He says that is what his constituents want. I think that the Conservatives have the mentality of not really understanding the importance of the climate change issue. To get a lesson from Ford Canada, if we want to buy a brand new Ford half-ton truck that is electric, we will be waiting for four years. Even his constituents realize that the need for transition, change and going to hybrids and electric vehicles is there. When does he believe the Conservative Party is going to catch up with the rest of Canadians in regard to the transition?

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Mr. Chris Warkentin

May/17/22 11:40:21 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, that is the kind of disrespect and disgusting behaviour of “Ottawa knows best” that we see in the House. Saying to my constituents to turn off their pickup for the next four years and wait until there is an electric truck available to them, and suggesting that they are living in the past because they will not immediately transition to a vehicle that is not yet available to them, is disgusting and despicable. The member should apologize.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

May/17/22 11:41:02 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, let us come back to the topic at hand. In his speech, my colleague mentioned that, although the oil industry is heavily subsidized, it also brings in a lot of revenue and that that money is used for other things. The figure he mentioned was $20 billion a year. Did he forget about the $10 billion that we are paying into the industry? Did he forget about the $10 billion invested in Trans Mountain? Did he forget about the $2.4 billion the government just promised for carbon capture, a technique that we know does not work? Most importantly, did he forget about how much climate change is costing? We only have to think about what happened in British Columbia last year. At some point, the government needs to start getting serious and move forward in the right direction. It needs to stop name-calling and saying that there are dishonest people. I understand that members work for their constituents. We must continue to put money into those ridings as we are doing now, but that money should be used for the energy transition. Is it not time to do that?

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Mr. Chris Warkentin

May/17/22 11:41:57 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I hate to imagine that the Bloc has joined the course of MPs and parties that want to drive up fuel prices at a time when we are seeing record high fuel prices. I have come here today to fight for my constituents who are finding it impossible— Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Chris Warkentin: Madam Speaker, the NDP is heckling me, because I am asking for fuel prices to be reduced— Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Chris Warkentin: Madam Speaker, it is amazing. The NDP is heckling and suggesting there are record profits. Do members know who is enjoying record profits from the high price of fuel right now? It is the Government of Canada and governments across this country, and those are being invested in health care, our roads and the infrastructure across this country. The NDP does not suggest for a second that those should be reduced. They are just saying—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/17/22 11:42:48 a.m.
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We have run out of time. I have allowed for more time than was permitted. I would like to remind members again that heckling and sharing their thoughts out loud is disrespectful when someone else has the floor. I would again ask members, because it has happened a lot this morning, to please hold onto their thoughts or write them down so they do not forget them. They will be able to ask a question or share their comments during questions and comments. We will resume debate with the hon. member for Calgary Centre.

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Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC)

May/17/22 11:43:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate being able to get up and speak to the motion the NDP has put forward. However, as I was drafting my speech, I had to ask myself where I could start here today. When I look at the motion, in the preamble it says, “(i) Canadians are paying almost $2 per litre of gas at the pump,” which is true. They do pay that. It then says, “(ii) oil and gas companies are making record profits,” and we will analyze what that actually means. The preamble then continues, “(iii) Canada spends 14 times more on financial support to the fossil fuel sector than it does for renewable energy,” which is complete hogwash, and I will address that item first. The preamble itself is a mulch of misinformation, and the NDP is very good at that. The NDP is very good at putting misinformation on the table and saying, “Here's what's going to happen here.” They then repeat a narrative that is completely false. I tried to participate last week at a forum hosted by my colleague who put this motion forward. I noticed that my party was the only party that was not invited to that forum, and that is because the other parties in the House have members who buy into this nonsense narrative about the way the transition happens. Now, my party and I have very good ideas about how we actually transition and decarbonize our economy, all of which are based on reason and outcomes, and none of which I have seen from the Liberals, the Bloc, the NDP nor the Green Party. Getting somewhere on the environmental equation is essential, and none of the other parties have presented anything that advances the environmental equation for the world. All they do is kneecap the Canadian industry. I did some research after that forum. I went to look for where this figure came from of subsidies in Canada for our oil and gas industry being 14 times more than what we fund for our alternative energy industry, and it comes from a group called Oil Change International, which is a proxy organization for Greenpeace. Its leadership comes from Friends of the Earth, and it is funded by the Tides Foundation. It is a splash of the same voices producing louder and more dissonant narratives about how we can actually decarbonize the world. Frankly, I will take licence on this, Madam Speaker, and you may have to slap me here, but it is a lie. It is something that this misinformation is based upon, and frankly, it needs to be called out for what it is whenever we see it here. As parliamentarians, our job here is to speak the truth and only the truth. When we foment misinformation by repeating lies from the Internet, we are going towards that confirmation bias, which we buy into and which our people buy into. We must get the real facts on the table here. We must ignore these groups, such as Oil Change International, which are just rent-seekers putting money in their own pockets at the expense of Canadians. I actually asked if there were—

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Ms. Elizabeth May

May/17/22 11:46:46 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point or order. I followed the member for Calgary Centre as closely as I could. He expected to have his wrist slapped, and if I understood him correctly, he called this motion from one of the hon. members of this place a “lie”, which is the same as saying that the hon. member for Victoria is a liar, unless I misheard him. Perhaps he can clarify.

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