44th Parl. 1st Sess.
October 5, 2023
- 04:44:31 p.m.
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Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
I just want to say, for the record, that I feel my privileges as a member of this committee were breached by the early start of the committee. We have an agreement, which has always stood in this committee, that the committee will not begin until 10 minutes after a recorded vote in the House. I was in the House voting, so I apologize if some of the things I'm about to ask have been covered.
I'm prepared to let it go at that.
Thank you for being here again. It's always good to see you.
In the session the other day, when the minister was here, I asked about the number of times publication bans are applied, and I really think that I wasn't particularly clear. I'm asking two questions there: How many times are publication bans used and how many times are publications automatically used in these cases? I was really trying to ask two things there. I know somewhat what your answer is, but I'd like to hear it.
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- 04:46:23 p.m.
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They do collect information on the number of sexual assault cases that are dealt with. If publication bans are routinely applied, which we've heard a number of times, then we should know roughly how many times they're used, if we know the number of sexual assault cases.
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- 04:46:56 p.m.
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They collect the information on the number of sexual assault cases that go to court—
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- 04:47:01 p.m.
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—so we should have that number.
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- 04:47:07 p.m.
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Okay. Let me move on from that.
I guess what we're establishing here is that we know anecdotally that these bans are routinely put in place, so victims of sexual assault are regularly subjected to the ban without being informed under the current regulations.
Are there any situations in which a ban on publication can be used under the current law to benefit the accused? Does this happen?
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- 04:48:13 p.m.
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Then we shouldn't be seeing cases in court in which the defence counsel for the accused is allowed to make representations on the publication ban.
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- 04:48:32 p.m.
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It's just that, again, anecdotally, we have sometimes heard about how defence attorneys have made presentations in court on publication bans and their lifting or their variance.
That's something that should not be happening. Is that what I'm hearing?
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- 04:48:51 p.m.
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Would the text of Bill S-12 do anything to clarify that situation?
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- 04:49:37 p.m.
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In terms of the requirement that victims be informed when there's a publication ban, does the current text of Bill S-12 require that victims be informed if they have a right to request a publication ban, if they should so desire, or is this simply an after-the-fact notification?
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- 04:50:18 p.m.
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I know I'm perilously close to the end. I have just one more brief question.
In the current legislation, are there any restrictions on varying or lifting publication bans?
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- 04:53:04 p.m.
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Madam Chair, on the calendar circulated, on the 19th it says that there's a meeting. What you're saying, just so I'm clear, is that the testimony will conclude on the 17th.
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- 04:53:22 p.m.
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My point, then, is that the testimony will conclude after the deadline to submit amendments, and that's problematic.
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- 04:53:36 p.m.
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Well, I don't wish to cause an inordinate delay here, but I think that at the very least, at the end of the day that day, we would allow, if something comes up at that meeting, for people to give notice of their intent to do amendments. I just think it's not fair to witnesses who appear on that day not to have their testimony affect what we might be doing in amendments.
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- 04:54:55 p.m.
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Thank you. That was the assurance I was seeking.
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- 05:25:22 p.m.
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Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to start by saying thanks to all the survivors, not just Morrell but the others who are in the room today, and all those who have come forward. It's a very difficult thing to talk about. Some of you may know that I'm also an adult survivor.
I also thank Laurel Collins, the member for Victoria, because when we started our study on victims, Laurel came to me and said, “I don't think they were thinking about this when they were studying victims, so I really want to make sure that you, as the justice committee, include this in your study, and I can tell you whom you need to talk to.” So Laurel Collins, the member for Victoria, was very influential. She had a private member's bill, which is running faster, and I guess I am frustrated by timing.
Both halves of Bill S-12 are urgent, and I think, Morrell, your comments today really underlined that for me when you were talking about how many times.... I've been trying to get somebody to admit how frequent this is in our society, because this is the most under-reported crime, yet we have dozens and dozens of cases before the courts all the time. I wonder if you could say a bit more about the frequency and the number of people who are subjected to the bans, not just subjected to sexual assault—I don't want to skip over that—but subjected to those bans.
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- 05:28:27 p.m.
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Thank you for the work that you're doing. I hope the message that all of you have delivered today—that we need more resources and not just law applied to this—is being heard around the table.
I want to come back to the question of legal aid that you raised, Ms. Stephens. In the legal aid agreements that exist, is this even listed in the categories of things? If people are looking at legal aid programs.... I don't remember ever seeing this as a category of legal aid or as something that people would even find out if they're looking at brochures and things, something that it would be possible to have legal aid for.
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- 05:29:55 p.m.
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I know I'm out of time, but I would guess that this would be the same or worse in all of the other provinces.
Ms. Megan Stephens: I would guess so, too.
Mr. Randall Garrison: Again, thank you.
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