On the Order:

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Cardozo, calling the attention of the Senate to the Canadian flag as part of celebrating National Flag of Canada Day.

(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, P.C., M.P., Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Hon. René Cormier: Honourable senators, I rise today to support Bill S-15, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act.

I want to acknowledge that the land on which I am speaking to you today is part of the traditional unceded territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin nation, a nation that has always had a unique and inspiring relationship with the animal kingdom.

As our former colleague, Senator Murray Sinclair, reminded us, and I quote:

In many Indigenous cultures, we use the phrase, “all my relations” to express the interdependency and interconnectedness of all life forms and our relationship of mutual reliance and shared destiny. When we treat animals well, we act with both self-respect and mutual respect.

4. Over the past few months, like most of you, no doubt, I’ve received numerous emails from Canadian citizens in favor of advancing this legislation.

Here in the Senate, we have debated at length the fundamental principles underlying the question of banning, subject to certain exceptions, the captivity of elephants and great apes, whether through this bill or another.

Essentially, the legislative proposal before us is based on the idea that the captivity of elephants and great apes, particularly for entertainment purposes, is a form of animal cruelty under the Criminal Code, subject to certain legitimate exceptions. By “great apes,” we mean chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans.

Bill S-15 reflects a deep respect for the dignity and physical and psychological well-being of these highly sensitive and intelligent creatures. Based largely on current scientific knowledge, this legislation recognizes that the captivity and breeding of these non-domesticated animal species for purposes such as entertainment constitutes a form of animal cruelty.

The preamble of the bill is clear in that regard, and I quote:

 . . . the science establishes that certain animals, particularly elephants and great apes, should not, because of the cruelty it represents, be kept in captivity;

[English]

In a letter to the bill’s sponsor, Senator Klyne, 23 independent experts asserted that elephants are not suited to any form of captivity, as no captive facility can fulfill their basic biological, social, spatial and cognitive requirements and needs.

They have stated:

As specialists on elephant well-being, we can attest that public display facilities keeping captive elephants are no longer supported or justified by the growing body of science on their sociobiological needs. In these situations, elephants endure conditions that are inadequate to meet their needs, as they lack essential components of wild ecosystems and inhibit expression of natural behaviours.

Studies have also demonstrated the harmful effects of captivity on great apes, particularly on their psychological state.

[Translation]

Colleagues, just like the Ending the Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act, Bill S-15 reflects the complexity of interactions between humans and certain animals in captivity.

Generally speaking, our relationships with animals are, for the most part, characterized by their function and the intrinsic value we ascribe to them. Consciously or unconsciously, we categorize the animals in our care based on how we use them.

For example, some animals supply food, others are pets, and still others are used for entertainment. Our relationships with and perceptions of them are complex indeed and influenced by many cultural, religious and social factors.

That being said, however we categorize them, we recognize that animals can feel pleasure and pain, and that we therefore have a legal and moral responsibility to minimize their unnecessary suffering.

Thanks to advances in our scientific knowledge, humans’ thinking about animals, particularly great apes and elephants, has evolved. Nowadays, no one can seriously claim that animals are mere automata as conceived by French philosopher René Descartes. Science teaches us that animals have interests and needs and can feel pain if those needs are not fully met.

[English]

Jeremy Bentham, an English philosopher and jurist, eloquently affirmed about animals that:

The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer? Why should the law refuse its protection to any sensitive being?

It is notably on the basis of this principle that our Criminal Code provides for certain offences designed to remedy animal cruelty, confirming that, in legal terms, we have positive duties toward animals. At present, the Criminal Code provides for offences relating to the unnecessary suffering of animals, as well as those prohibiting the captivity of cetaceans, subject to certain exceptions.

While the provinces and territories may enact their own animal welfare legislation pursuant to section 92(13) of the Constitution Act, 1867, Parliament remains legally able to enact criminal laws that also affect animal welfare.

[Translation]

Bill S-15, which makes it an offence, subject to certain circumstances, to possess great apes and elephants that are kept in captivity, particularly for entertainment purposes, seems to reflect the same criminal law objectives as Bill S-203, which was passed in 2019 and will phase out cetacean captivity.

Both legislative measures criminally prohibit a practice that is considered cruel from a scientific and moral perspective, and they constitute a valid exercise of federal authority with respect to animal cruelty pursuant to subsection 91(27) of the Constitution Act, 1867.

In a letter sent to the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources on December 4, law professors asserted that passing Bill S-15 would indeed be a valid exercise of Parliament’s powers to pass criminal laws in this area.

Honourable colleagues, Bill S-15 takes a critical look at our place and our role in relation to intelligent beings with social, cognitive and biological capacities that are similar to ours. Consider the chimpanzee, which shares nearly 98.8% of its DNA with humans.

Canadian jurisprudence recognizes that chimpanzees have the cognitive capacity to solve complex problems. British ethologist and anthropologist Jane Goodall showed through her research that chimpanzees exhibit many cognitive abilities that were previously thought to be unique to humans, including a form of rational thought.

Chimpanzees can feel a wide range of emotions, including happiness, sorrow, tenderness, jealousy, remorse and anger. They are highly complex beings with many abilities.

[English]

As our former colleague senator Murray Sinclair declared within this chamber, with his trademark sense of humour:

Chimpanzees live within complex societies, forming political alliances to achieve their goals — kind of like Parliament. Male chimps even fawn over infants when vying for power — kind of like parliamentarians. When disputes break out, diplomatic individuals will patch things up. Chimps, like humans, can be violent, but they also demonstrate cooperation and altruism, such as delivering food and water to elderly relatives. They have been seen saving others in danger and helping wounded birds. Chimpanzees grieve their dead.

[Translation]

During a Canada-Africa Parliamentary Association mission to Cameroon, I, along with the co-chair, our colleague, the Honourable Amina Gerba, visited Mefou National Park, a rehabilitation centre that is home to 320 primates, including 110 chimpanzees and 21 gorillas. The goal of Ape Action Africa, the organization that manages the park, is to address the immediate threats faced by gorillas and chimpanzees in Africa and to work with communities to develop long-term solutions to ensure their survival in the wild. They are doing amazing work.

During our visit, it was fascinating to observe these primates who are so closely related to us humans. We actually felt more like we were the ones being observed.

One of them looked at me with a particularly insistent gaze. Maybe my physiognomy evoked in him a strong feeling of kinship. Did I remind him of some distant cousin or long-lost brother? I couldn’t tell, but he almost seemed to be inviting me to jump the fence and join him — which I would have happily done, colleagues, considering the beauty of the natural surroundings.

On a more serious note, it was impossible to remain unmoved by their living conditions and by the urgent need to protect these amazing creatures. We need to recognize that, now more than ever, human and animal cohabitation is crucial to our planet’s future.

[English]

In his second reading speech, Senator Klyne also addressed the complex characteristics of the elephant — an altruistic, highly intelligent and emotional being. The way we treat elephants and great apes gives real meaning to the notions of dignity and respect. These animals, with their complex life forms, are not entertainment creatures. They deserve respect and dignity. It is also possible to entertain the public without using these animal species. With shows given since 1984, the famous Cirque du Soleil, a remarkable Quebec company, has enchanted over 33 million spectators without using animals.

I am, therefore, pleased to see that the use of captive elephants and great apes for entertainment purposes is not subject to an exception in this bill.

[Translation]

Colleagues, despite the benefits that could be associated with the captivity of elephants and great apes, including the conservation efforts that Senator Klyne mentioned in his speech, their captivity should always be regarded as an impediment to their individual fulfillment.

Captivity may be a necessary means to a legitimate end, but it must never be considered an end in and of itself for these animals, an underlying principle of Bill S-15. To echo the essence of what our former colleague Senator Wilfred Moore said about Bill S-203, Bill S-15 is a form of “moral condemnation” of the captivity of elephants and great apes, regardless of their actual or potential benefits.

Colleagues, giving a voice to the voiceless in society is a guiding principle for our work in the Senate. Animals are no exception to this quest. I invite all senators to examine this legislation with empathy, respect and imagination for the benefit of such precious beings as great apes and elephants.

I really hope this bill will be studied in committee, so that the scientific and legal arguments surrounding this legislation can be examined more thoroughly.

Thank you.

Hon. Claude Carignan: Would Senator Cormier take a question?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

(At 6:38 p.m., the Senate was continued until Monday, February 26, 2024, at 6 p.m.)

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Hon. Sharon Burey: Colleagues, I rise today to speak to Bill S-280, An Act respecting a national framework on sickle cell disease.

This national framework must include measures to increase awareness, address training needs, create a national research network and a national registry, ensure equitable access to neonatal screening and consider an analysis of the financial impact on patients and families.

[English]

I will be speaking as the critic of this bill and, colleagues, this is my first attempt at being a critic.

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

Hon. Sharon Burey: Thank you so much, Senator Clement. This is a very important point. I want to return to something that Senator Cordy mentioned in her speech when it was the Honourable Dr. Jean Augustine who spoke about sickle cell disease and everyone said, “What is that?” not knowing that it affected so many Canadians.

The lack of awareness is one of the reasons why there is so much stigma associated with it. We spoke of the vaso-occlusive crisis, which are painful events when you come in and you are thought of as a drug-seeking person so you are stigmatized and not given appropriate pain medication. We already know from many research studies that when racialized people go to the hospital asking for pain medication, their pain score is thought to be not as relevant as someone from another ethnic group.

We know there is a lot of work to be done. I think that having this bill to raise awareness will help to decrease that stigma. It will also allow people to talk about it — I’m talking about people who are suffering from sickle cell disease — so that it will be able to enter the conversation. We all know about mental health and how, for a long time, we know that it came out of the Senate in Out of the Shadows at Last, the mental health report that was so important. Talking about it brings things out of the shadows. That is what is really important.

[Translation]

Hon. Bernadette Clement: Senator Burey, will you take a question?

Hon. Marie-Françoise Mégie: I sincerely thank Senator Burey for agreeing to be the critic for this bill. I am truly happy about that.

Before I answer your question, I would like to ask you one myself.

When health care professionals are taught about the different hemoglobinopathies, including sickle cell disease, is sickle cell disease the only one that’s covered, or are all the other ones included as well?

[English]

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Mégie, do you have another question?

The Hon. the Speaker: Technically, you should be asking a question, but you can make your comment.

The Hon. the Speaker: Thank you, minister.