Senator Marshall: — with the Phoenix system.

Can you assure us that the government has control over this program and that it will be successfully implemented?

Senator Marshall: Thank you very much, Senator Gold, for that response.

The Auditor General’s second report on IT systems was also very interesting. That report discussed the largest IT project undertaken by the federal government, estimated to cost $2.5 billion. It’s going to replace the 60-year-old Old Age Security system, as well as the 50-year-old Employment Insurance system that more than 10 million Canadians receive benefits under.

Since its launch in 2017, numerous obstacles and delays have been encountered in its implementation. The Auditor General has expressed concern over the project —

Hon. Elizabeth Marshall: My question is also for Senator Gold.

Senator Gold, last month, the Auditor General of Canada released two reports on the government’s aging information technology systems. Here are some of the things she said. She said only 38% of government’s 7,500 IT applications are considered healthy. She said work has not proceeded for 65% of approximately 4,500 applications earmarked for modernization.

Departments and agencies are maintaining old and outdated IT applications and relying on old and outdated IT infrastructure. Personnel with knowledge of and expertise on outdated and unsupported technology are diminishing. Some systems no longer have vendor support. There is no strategy or plan to modernize these old IT systems.

Given the magnitude of this critical problem, a whole-of-government approach is required. Can you tell us what the government intends to do to address this problem?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you, Senator Marshall. You put your finger on a real and serious problem, a problem that this government is confronting and, indeed, previous governments have confronted. Regrettably, colleagues, those of you who have worked in business or in IT in large organizations will find the story rather familiar.

Spending lots of money — and it always costs lots of money to update IT systems — is never something of particular appeal to voters, much less to governments seeking to deliver the goods to the electors in areas where electors feel the need.

As a result, generations of governments have regrettably not invested sufficiently in the infrastructure. We have reached the point now where — as you have properly pointed out, and it’s only the tip of the iceberg — the problem is significant.

This government is seized with this problem. I can tell you that with some confidence. It will make every effort within the budgetary constraints imposed on us to at least take steps forward to address this problem.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Marshall, please —

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Marshall, thank you. Senator Gold, your response.