Senator Pate: Thank you very much for that question and suggestion. I would agree. Certainly, the findings coming out of numerous inquests into the deaths of women, particularly Indigenous women, but also the Mass Casualty Commission, really point to the need to do more of that work and understand how countercharging and the vilification of the victim has actually backfired, particularly when it comes to those who are intersectionally disadvantaged, whether it’s by race, gender, identity or poverty.

While there have been great strides made in awareness about these issues — I have certainly met individual police officers and I know of excellent police policies, they are not always followed. It’s often more unusual to see — and I think I have spoken about those previously in this chamber — when really exceptional work has been done by police officers. It shouldn’t have to be the exception, and I think that’s one of the areas that we need to examine. This kind of approach doesn’t come close to addressing the overarching issues that contribute to those situations.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question, senator. The social determinants of crime, the overrepresentation not only of Indigenous and marginalized people but also of poor people, those who don’t have access to the resources that others do, is a real problem, a tragic problem and something that we should be ashamed of.

This government, provincial governments and territories are doing what they can to provide better resources, whether it’s social services or the like, but the work will never be complete. So you’re right to point out the despair that many experience when they find themselves in the system and it goes from bad to worse.

This bill is a very targeted measure to deal with people charged with offences and under what additional circumstances they might have to demonstrate to the satisfaction of a judge that they don’t pose a risk to the public at large, to their partner or to their community.

It builds upon a recognition in the law of many years that there are circumstances where it is totally appropriate, notwithstanding the presumption of innocence, to at least require the person to demonstrate their willingness and ability to abide by the rules and comply with their conditions.

It makes more public the criteria that judges apply when they have to make the decision whether to release somebody back into the community when they are facing trial for an offence. It is important to remember that we are dealing here with only the circumstances where there are charges of very serious violent offences, whether it’s with a firearm or with bear spray or knives, or of violence and repeat violence against intimate partners and so on.

This bill does not attempt to tackle the real problems that you raised that are with us, sadly and tragically, but it is a step in the right direction to mitigate the risk of violence to individuals and to communities. In that regard — if you’ll allow me to use a cliché — we can’t let the better be the enemy of the good here.

This is an important step. It does not address any of the important issues that you raise. That’s for other bills and other measures from all levels of government.

Hon. Mary Jane McCallum: Senator Gold, I was invited to attend a brunch with the police association and the premiers on bail reform this summer, and I raised a concern at that time. One of the panellists gave an example of an offender who had stolen a bottle of liquor and, 10 years later, he is a hardened criminal is what she said. Because of the way the system is set up, at that time, we were told that 70% of the people in the provincial jails were Indigenous and the majority had not even been to court.

Indigenous relationship with police administration, police officers and the justice system is already precarious. How will racial profiling and racism be addressed? If they are not, there will be a continuous flow of new criminals, and no law will be able to handle the load, even if additional resources are given. An example I’ll use is 80% of the Indigenous prisoners who are in the pen were children who were apprehended. So we need to look at reducing the flow of child apprehension so we don’t have that flow going in, because we’re not going to change the penitentiary system. How will this be addressed?

One comment that came up was people were so upset in there that they said, “Throw them in jail and throw away the key,” which caused me great concern. Thank you.

Hon. Frances Lankin: Thank you very much. I appreciate all the contributions, and I think that there are important issues for us to delve into. I particularly appreciate you raising not just specifically Indigenous and Black women, but the gender bias within the justice system.

One thing that I have been aware of from working with women’s organizations that work with women who have experienced intimate domestic violence and/or abuse within the home is the change in the attitude of policing that has gone on over a period of time. I would have thought there would be more sensitivity and a better situation, but the statistics I have seen — and from what I have been told — show that there has been a growth in the number of times in which a woman defending herself will be, in fact, charged and arrested.

I wonder if you have any other specific or general information about that. In particular, at the Legal and Constitutional Committee, I hope that in the study this will be one of the second reading concerns that have been raised that you will look into. You alluded to this in terms of speaking about the added difficulty that women face in these circumstances in having to meet the reverse onus, so I hope that you would undertake to examine that part of it, too.