Senator Cotter: Thank you.

I thought this was an important bill for you to bring forward, and I think we are all appreciative of it, particularly for farmers who have real challenges in producing food for Canadians and the world market.

I appreciated your observation that this was really not a political point, although, with the greatest of respect, I thought Senator Batters evolved it a little bit in that direction, as she has on occasion done here.

Let me make a statement, which is that your point about price takers also means, in some respects, that they have to take the price in the market, and they are not the ones driving up grocery store prices, because that is part of what they take rather than influence.

One of the strategies around carbon pricing is to try to incentivize people to make other choices. It is clear that is a real challenge for farmers in this context, but removing this from the carbon pricing regime does kind of disincentivize that direction. Whether you are enthusiastic about carbon pricing or not, it is trying to use market-based tools to incentivize.

Do you have suggestions? Are there other options that can generate that kind of incentive in this area so that we will actually end up with successes, say, adopting this but doing some other things that can inspire hog producers and grain farmers in their initiatives?

Senator Wells: Thank you, Senator Cotter, and you are right. There are other things that can be done. There could be a rebate on equipment that is done towards moving away from technology that requires fossil fuel. There are also programs for that.

The idea is not for the farmers and growers and ranchers to take the margin and run and go, “That’s great; we have this.” Each of the ones I quoted has said, “Our plan is to use this to invest in innovative technologies, something different.”

If it wasn’t the case, I wouldn’t say, as I did a number of times in my speech, that there are currently no alternatives that are market-ready in either equipment or fuel.

That natural gas and propane are transition fuels is very positive; it is not coal. If you said, “Okay, we won’t give you a benefit for using natural gas or propane,” if there’s still a penalty, they are going to choose the cheapest fuel they can, which, in many cases, is coal and oil.

Hon. Brent Cotter: Senator Wells, will you take one more question from me?

Senator Wells: I will, Senator Cotter.