Senator Batters: Senator Gold, Prime Minister Trudeau’s Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino plays fast and loose where facts are concerned. He recently claimed that the RCMP had ousted Beijing government police stations operating in Canada, but an article days later proved that wasn’t the case.

During last year’s convoy, Mendicino repeatedly insisted that police asked for the federal government to invoke the Emergencies Act, a claim that was flatly denied by police.

Now, after enduring opposition criticism on this issue, Minister Mendicino finally said last week that he has only known about the threats against MP Michael Chong since last Monday, even though the CSIS assessment was dated July 2021.

Whether the minister willfully failed to be informed, or whether his advisers failed to inform him, either way, it’s a firing offence. The question is who will be fired. If the Minister of Public Safety is so unaware of what’s going on in his portfolio, when will he finally be fired? If CSIS knew two years ago and failed to inform him until last week, who will lose their job there?

Senator Batters: I guess I was just reinforcing the point you made that farmers are price-takers, not price-makers. If they have increased costs because of the carbon tax increasing, as well as GST on the carbon tax and all of that, they have to pass that cost along in order to remain a viable operation. The cost, of course, is passed on to the consumer at the grocery store because groceries do not fall out of the sky. Groceries come from farmers, generally, at one point or another.

As a result, given that grocery store prices are continuing to increase — perhaps inflation is flattening a little bit, but it is still a very high rate — could you tell us a bit more regarding how the food that farmers produce, whether that be grain, cattle or chickens, results in higher costs at grocery stores?

Senator Wells: Thank you again, Senator Batters.

In regard to farmers, ranchers and growers being price-takers, their markets are commodity markets. For the price of hogs, wheat and all of these things, they have no say like in the grocery store. The grocery store owner might charge a specific price for a can — whatever it is — because they have the choice to do that. The farmer has no choice. Any price differential wouldn’t happen in that year; that would happen in the next year. But when you look at it, there are so many things globally that account for a price, such as droughts in different areas of the world and flooding in other areas; there are so many things. The farmer gets what the farmer gets. They do not have a great deal of choice.

It is absolutely passed on to the consumer. The consumer is the one who pays for the end product regardless — which gives even more credence to the necessity for farmers to have as much margin as they can in order to invest in things that they know they will need to invest in. It is only becoming more costly; it is not becoming less costly, especially with the price of fuel and the price of equipment — this goes directly to that — for which there are no other alternatives, both in fuel and equipment.

Hon. Denise Batters: Senator Gold, Canadians are shocked at the reports that Beijing diplomatic officials in Canada targeted MP Michael Chong and his family in retaliation for his House of Commons motion condemning the Uighur genocide. Even more astonishing was that you repeated Prime Minister Trudeau’s assertion last week that CSIS didn’t think the threats to a sitting member of Parliament were “a significant enough concern in their judgment.”

A CSIS intelligence assessment from July 2021 warned of the potential threats against MP Chong’s family. At that time, Canadian citizens Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig were still held hostage in China. Their sham trials had occurred only three months earlier. In that context, it is unbelievable that CSIS and the PM’s National Security Advisor found threatened intimidation of a sitting MP and his family failed to pose “a significant enough concern” to warrant informing the Prime Minister, the Minister of Public Safety and the targeted MP himself.

Senator Gold, if what the Prime Minister is saying were true — that CSIS didn’t think this threat to a sitting MP was serious enough — why hasn’t anyone been fired for this? Is this because Prime Minister Trudeau has set up his senior security apparatus to treat him as a ceremonial Prime Minister?

Hon. Denise Batters: Thank you for sponsoring this bill, Senator Wells. It’s such an important bill for people in my province of Saskatchewan and farmers all across Canada.

Canadian farmers are stewards of the land; they are extremely innovative in environmentally friendly practices, and they have been for decades. This is partly a result of their desire to preserve the land, but another part of the reason is to keep costs low. I was looking back at a 2020 tweet that I put out about grain drying and agriculture, and I used the example of Kenton Possberg from Humboldt, Saskatchewan, who had sent me his grain drying bill — his SaskEnergy bill. For the carbon tax, he was billed almost $3,000 for one month of grain drying his crop; GST was added to that amount. I have heard that this was not even that exorbitant of a figure compared to some other farmers’ experiences. That was a few years ago.

Despite their promises to cap the carbon tax, the Trudeau government’s carbon tax has continued to increase, and it will continue to do so. The cost now is even much higher than at that point.

I also want to mention that food inflation has led to higher prices at the grocery store for all Canadians. At a time when so many Canadians are struggling to put food on their table and food bank usage is at an all-time high, Canada’s farmers need this carbon tax exemption in this bill in order to help their farming operations be more viable.

I would like you to explain further so that all Canadians understand how this impacts them, as well as how Canadian consumers need this exemption to make food costs at their grocery stores much more affordable.

Senator Wells: Thank you for your question, Senator Batters. If I make this an argument over the ills or gains of the carbon tax, then I will quickly lose the argument in this room.

Yes, obviously, providing farmers with a better margin on their work would be better for the farmer. Senator Woo mentioned that prices increase and prices decrease; that is true. It seems that for our plates, right now, the prices are increasing. I don’t know if the farmer benefits from those increased prices because the prices are increasing for the farmer, as well as for growers and ranchers — when I mention one, I mean them all.

This is simply for on-farm equipment like barns — where cattle have to live in the winter and the summer — for drying grain, as well as for all of the necessary things for which there is currently no alternative machinery and no alternative fuel. That is the essence of the bill. It is to provide that, and to provide time for the farmer, rancher and grower to come up to speed by purchasing, developing and innovating technology. This “carve‑out,” as Senator Woo so incorrectly puts it, gives them time to do it.