Senator Gold: This government engages in consultations to learn from them; they don’t make up their minds before the consultations have been completed and analyzed.

Having said that, you asked for a simple answer. What will happen after the consultations is that decisions will be taken. When they have been taken, they will be announced.

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. I simply do not accept the characterization that this is patronage. You cited — as you have on many occasions — a flurry of things, which you continue to return to. I won’t answer each and every one of them.

The Prime Minister’s trip, his most recent vacation, was cleared by the former Ethics Commissioner before the fact. It is not a question of patronage, and I do take objection, frankly, and I’ll speak only for myself, to the way in which you characterize our former Governor General in this question and in others.

Senator Gold: The decision of the CBC to pursue a lawsuit against the Conservative Party, or anybody else, is a decision made by the CBC, and has nothing to do with the government.

The question of where the money came from, whether it came from ad revenue or taxpayer revenue, as you have asserted without knowledge one way or the other, is also a matter for the management of the CBC and, by extension, the board of directors of the CBC — not for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold: That is a good question, but I don’t really have the ability to answer it adequately. Our relationships with the world — whether it’s commercial, political, strategic, intelligence sharing or others — are complex, polycentric and multi-faceted. In that regard, there is, no doubt, going to be tensions, pushes and pulls between the various objectives that characterize our foreign policy.

Canada’s feminist foreign policy is a serious engagement by this government, and, indeed, it is emulated and admired by others, and will continue to be, notwithstanding the fact that we live in a complicated, messy world — and our actions on behalf of Canadians, companies and individuals may not always line up with everyone’s expectations of what the priority should be.

Senator Gold: Unfortunately, as I said, I do not have an answer to that question.

[English]

Senator Gold: As I have stated on a number of occasions, the Special Rapporteur the Honourable David Johnston will be advising the Prime Minister. When that advice is given and considered, decisions and announcements will be made.

Senator Gold: Senator Cardozo, you’re dragging the law professor out of me, aren’t you?

One of the contributions that the Canadian Charter made to public discourse about rights is to make it clear, through section 1 of the Charter, that rights, however expansively they might be drafted in text, are not absolute in the sense that they are not subject to other countervailing rights, interests or considerations. In that regard, our Charter, like all charters, recognizes the necessity to place parameters and limits around the exercise of rights that would otherwise be unbounded.

It is a premise of our Constitution, and not only because the preamble says “peace, order and good government,” that our Constitution and our institutions exist to provide for order and liberty, freedom and justice. From my understanding of what you meant by “anarchy,” I think it is inconsistent with those. I think the Charter is there to protect those rights that need to be exercised in the context of our liberal democratic constitutional framework.

[Translation]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. No, I do not. There was an ethics screening that applied to the former interim commissioner from day one, as is the appropriate practice in such institutions in such cases.

I stand by what I said yesterday to defend her integrity, her competency and the role she was asked and agreed to play.

Now that she has decided to step aside, the government will be moving with dispatch to select a new interim commissioner. In that regard, the government will be working with all parties collaboratively to find the right person and to appoint them.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, the question of whether and how to set up foreign registry is one upon which the government is consulting — and properly so. That there are divergent views within Canada by Canadians on this subject is also to be expected in a diverse society.

The Prime Minister is not speaking out of both sides of his mouth, nor is he acting as a mouthpiece, and to disparage those who are raising questions about the possible collateral impacts of such an initiative at this stage of the consultations, to brand them and sweep them under as a mouthpiece of a Communist regime, frankly, is a disservice to those Canadians who, in good faith, want to see us have the right tools — as this government does — to address foreign interference and to add to the tools we already have and are deploying.

Again, colleagues, the consultations are under way. The government is serious about pursuing this, but it is listening to Canadians, as we would expect it to do.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question.

The Charter has been a fundamental transformative element in our Constitution since its enactment in 1982, and in that regard, it has had impacts that even surpassed the expectations of those who lobbied for it and worked hard to see it come to light.

It has transformed the work that we do here in the Senate. It has been an increasingly present part of our discussions and our role as we see it as senators to make sure that the Charter rights of Canadians are taken properly into account and respected in the laws that we are called upon to study and ultimately pass.

It is true that the pre-emptive use of the “notwithstanding” clause is something that is a preoccupation to many of us and, indeed, this government, as the Prime Minister has announced on many occasions.

The “notwithstanding” clause is — we have to remind ourselves — part of the Charter and was part of the bargain that allowed the patriation of the Constitution to happen. It is the government’s position that it should be used appropriately, and not irresponsibly, and in that regard, this issue is currently before the courts, as you know.

I have confidence, though, that the Charter has transformed the way we Canadians see ourselves in many different ways, and I believe it is secure in that regard. It is certainly secure in this chamber.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question and for raising the number of challenges that farmers in this country are facing.

I’m glad you mentioned climate change amongst them because, in fact, farmers are on the front lines in dealing with climate change, whether the issue is flooding or droughts or storms. In my own region of the province where I live, my friends who are maple syrup producers did not have the easiest time this year with the tapping of their trees as a result of climate change.

The government is focused on taking environmental action throughout the country while supporting the competitiveness of farmers, who feed Canadians and, indeed, the world. That’s why the government has done a number of things. They have already exempted gas and diesel for farm use from pollution pricing. They have created a rural top-up for rebates, directly returning proceeds collected in proportion to the amount collected via the price on pollution, which translates to $100 million returned to farmers in 2021-22 and $120 million in 2022-23. Over the last two years, the government has invested $1.5 billion in programs to support farmers to reduce their emissions on farms and grow their operations. This includes a $0.5-billion program to purchase cleaner equipment, such as more energy efficient grain dryers and barn heating systems.

I could go on, but I think this demonstrates this government’s commitment.

Again, as I said on many occasions in this chamber, we are doing the right thing by our planet, by our environment and, indeed, by our farmers — who are the victims of climate change as much as any of us — while at the same time, the government is doing its best to offset the impact of these necessary measures on those, like farmers, who are paying a price.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question and for underlying the tragedy happening in Yemen. I wish that were the only place such things were happening.

Since 2020, the government has put into place a process whereby permits for exports of arms are not granted automatically but need to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Canada continues to do that. It is the position of the government that it will continue to do that to ensure that this industry is carried on in a responsible way.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): The short answer is no, I don’t have an answer.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Wow, Senator Batters, to suggest that the Honourable David Johnston, the former Governor General, would be influenced by a per diem — and you were a lawyer, perhaps not on Bay Street — that is the equivalent of a few hours of work for professionals — but for any amount.

To suggest, imply or assert that somehow the Honourable David Johnston would be influenced by his per diem and that it would change the advice he would give the Prime Minister is really something that — I cannot find the parliamentary language to express how it makes me feel to hear this being treated with seriousness and that you are asking me to respond to a question like this. With all due respect, it does not dignify a response.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Well, I don’t have an answer to your questions, and I’m not the CBC representative in this place. I know it has become rather common in some quarters — notably in your party — to assert that the CBC is an organ of Liberal government propaganda, despite all evidence to the contrary. Despite the facts, despite the protestations, I guess in this new world — that some live in — the facts don’t seem to matter.

I have made inquiries. I don’t have a response.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I wish to advise the Senate that I have been unable to reach an agreement with the representatives of the recognized parties to allocate time to the motion, as amended, to respond to the message from the House of Commons concerning the Senate’s amendments to Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

Therefore, I give notice that, at the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:

That, pursuant to rule 7-2, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated for the consideration of the motion, as amended, to respond to the message from the House of Commons concerning the Senate’s amendments to Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I wish to advise the Senate that I have been unable to reach an agreement with the representatives of the recognized parties to allocate time to the motion, as amended, to respond to the message from the House of Commons concerning the Senate’s amendments to Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

Therefore, I give notice that, at the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:

That, pursuant to rule 7-2, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated for the consideration of the motion, as amended, to respond to the message from the House of Commons concerning the Senate’s amendments to Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.