Senator Cardozo: I want to make one point that I think is lost sometimes. The CRTC has the ability to make its own regulations within the framework of the act — I use the word “framework” generally, Senator Gold — and it doesn’t have to wait for a directive from cabinet. The point being, over the next few years, the CRTC has the ability to change regulations. If you think of the word “TikTok,” five years ago, “tick-tock” only referred to the sound of your grandfather’s clock — today, it has a different meaning, and, five years from now, it will have a different meaning again. A lot of technology will change.

My question is this: For viewers who are watching us today, our debate so far, over the last hour, has been on a couple of issues that were turned back by the House of Commons. Senator, could you remind us of a couple of highlights where the House did, in fact, agree with the good work we have done, particularly regarding what we advised them on? You outlined them briefly in your opening comments, but I think the viewing public — outside this room — might want to be reminded that the House did agree with a whole lot of things. Although I’m a new senator, 20 out of 26 strikes me as quite high; you can correct me if I’m wrong.

Senator Cardozo: Yes. My question is this։ Given that we don’t know everything about the technology that will roll out year by year, is this not the better way to do it? Should we not leave it to the CRTC to deal with those details and update those regulations every few years?

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: My question is to Senator Gold.

I’m looking at proposed subsection (2.1) of Bill C-11:

Exclusion — carrying on broadcasting undertaking

(2.1) A person who uses a social media service to upload programs for transmission over the Internet and reception by other users . . . does not, by the fact of that use, carry on a broadcasting undertaking for the purposes of this Act.

So it seems to me that user-generated folks are excluded. The next proposed subsection, (2.2), is titled “Exclusion — social media service and programming control,” and it is followed by subsection (2.3), which is another exclusion.

It seems to me there are several exclusions which are quite explicit. I’m not seeing the need for yet another exclusion to be guaranteed when it seems to me to be quite clear there. I find your explanations satisfactory in terms of those issues being quite clearly stated in those proposed sections of the act.

My question is more direct in terms of the process. As I see it, we’re dealing with three types of instruments. The first is legislation, which is passed by Parliament. We’re seeing how long it takes to pass legislation. Apart from the 31 years, it has now taken 2 or 3 years to do it. Then you have the next level as a directive from the cabinet and Governor-in-Council to the CRTC. On the third level, you have regulations that the CRTC can make, following extensive consultation.

I was a commissioner there, and, by the way, while people cite former commissioners who are against this, here is a commissioner who is in favour of this bill. There are others; we’re not that rare. I have been party to part of the process of how regulations are made. I have to tell you they are mind-numbingly extensive and detailed.

While we are spending a bit of time here dealing with this, the commission’s role, like most other commissions, is to deal with these sorts of things full time. They put questions out, they get answers back; they put out a draft, they get answers back and then they make regulations. The process is extensive.

The wisdom of having this process is that it takes 31-plus-3 years to make changes to the law, whereas a cabinet directive can be done at the drop of a hat. Changes to regulation take several weeks and maybe months, but not years. To me, that’s the wisdom of having this process where you describe the framework in the act, and you leave directives and regulations to deal with the details. Those details have to —