Senator Housakos: Government leader, you’re giving the impression to this chamber that there is somehow a tradition in this place at message point of legislation that we’re just a rubber stamp, and that’s not the case.

It’s in the Constitution that this chamber has a right and a responsibility at message stage to refuse a bill as well, which you did not highlight, and to send it back along with many other options that this chamber has. Yes, there has been a tradition to bow to the wishes of the elected chamber, but there is also something the forefathers had established when they created this chamber — that when a government does something so egregious that a large number of Canadians find it offensive, we have the right to exercise our constitutional authority. I just want to put that on the record as well, government leader.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, before I move the adoption of the report, it has come to my attention that there was a technical problem during the preparation of the report, which resulted in the report as presented not accurately reflecting the decisions taken by the committee.

I have been informed that the technical issue has been resolved and that internal quality controls are being reviewed to minimize the risk of similar errors occurring again and to ensure that the Senate has before it a document that accurately reflects the committee’s decision.

Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate, I move:

That the Fourth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications be amended in amendment no. 1 by deleting subsection (1.12) and by renumbering subsection (1.13) as subsection (1.12).

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, I’ve been now in this place for 15 years, and excuse me if I am a little skeptical of taking any government at face value. I as a legislator would like to see things in the law in black and white.

You pointed out as well that we should just have faith that this is going to be done and that we are here to make sure that we overlook and carry out our responsibilities, as you said in your speech, as legislators to make sure the government does what they say. Don’t you also agree that we are passing a law here that has not been supported by a regulatory framework? We’re leaving it to the CRTC, as you said in your speech. They will be carrying out public consultations in order to set the regulatory framework. What happens in case this regulatory framework isn’t consistent with the commitments you highlighted in your speech? What are our options as parliamentarians at that point with this bill to do a follow-up in a thorough way?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Not to belabour the point, but user-generated content is definitely scoped into this bill. That was the opinion of the chairman of the CRTC when he testified before our committee. That was the opinion of the legal expert of Heritage Canada who, on numerous occasions, was asked directly about the language that Senator Cardozo referred to. It is clear that the government is refusing to tighten that language and accept reasonable amendments that state, in black and white in law, that user-generated content will be excluded. Nonetheless, I also want to correct a couple of things.

In his exchange with you, Senator Gold, Senator Cardozo highlighted really what the problem is between those who are fine with the bill and those who are against the bill. I know that the CRTC has the authority to make regulations because the law that we’re about to pass and the government wants to pass is giving that authority. In the old Broadcasting Act and the current Broadcasting Act, our colleague Senator Cardozo is right: The government and Canadian Heritage can not only influence the regulatory framework; they can give directives and overrule the CRTC. That’s precisely why when you have laws like the Broadcasting Act that leave this Parliament and become law, there have to be safeguards to make sure whoever is in government has parameters that they have to work within that we parliamentarians give them. And if we’re negligent in our responsibility in making laws that are clear, that’s when, of course, problems can occur.

Now, in terms of the regulatory framework, it is so customary on bills that are technical — like Bill C-11 — for governments to attach regulatory frameworks in advance. With Bill C-10, the precursor bill of Bill C-11, if you remember, at the final stages of that bill, under a lot of pressure from work in this chamber, the government came out with a framework at that particular point in time. It wasn’t a very good one, but they came up with a framework. It doesn’t require tossing it to the CRTC for two years.

But I don’t want to digress. I want to get to my follow-up question because there are a lot more problems with this bill than just user-generated content.

When we’re reforming the Broadcasting Act, one of the main pillars that needs to be reformed, which was not even looked at in this bill, is CanCon. My question to you, government leader, is the following: How could a story written by Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid’s Tale, with Canadian actors, filmed in Canada, with a Canadian director and so on and so forth — how could something like that, in the eyes of this current bill as we want to pass it, not qualify as Canadian content?

Senator Housakos: We tried to move amendments at committee dealing with Canadian content, and they were rejected. They were rejected and, by the same token, it’s part of the parliamentary process. Now, again, if you don’t want to answer the question, it speaks volumes, government leader, how the government is negligent in doing an in-depth dive on dealing with Canadian broadcasting.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, as a friendly critic of this legislation, not only am I rising to express my unreserved support for this bill, but, in so doing, I also promise not to take up the full 45 minutes of my allotted time.

I’ll start by thanking the sponsor, Senator Jane Cordy, for bringing this legislation forward, and for all of her hard work, and that of her team, in getting it to this point.

The vast majority of Lebanese immigrants came to Canada between the years of 1975 and 1990. They were fleeing the Lebanese Civil War, which drives home the point that so many immigrants have come to this country fleeing desperate situations in their homeland. They’ve come here seeking freedom, peace, opportunity and prosperity.

Like every single Canadian — arriving directly or indirectly — who has been here for years, we’ve come here fleeing either civil war or economic hardship, looking for freedom and opportunity. Of course, that is what this great country has offered to immigrants for decades and decades.

But Canada’s Lebanese communities date back much further than that. There are some who can trace their roots all the way back to the first influx of Lebanese immigrants who came through Halifax’s Pier 21 in 1880.

My own parents came through Halifax in the late 1950s, seeking refuge from a beautiful homeland but, nonetheless, one that was ravaged by civil war, economic hardship and the devastations of World War II. They came here with the dream of a better future for themselves and their children. They achieved that through hard work and perseverance.

I remember saying to my parents — and my mother, in particular, who is no longer with us; God rest her soul — “You left your country at the age of 17, and travelled halfway around the world. Many years later, what are your thoughts about your decision?” My mother said, “I’ll never trade that decision for anything in the world, and I’ll never trade this country. As a young woman in my country, I worked extremely hard; and the harder I worked, the more I remained standing in the same place. The future seemed bleak. I came to Canada with one dream: following the rules and laws and working hard. The harder I worked, the further I got.”

That is what Canada is all about to all the immigrants whom we have embraced. Of course, the Lebanese community is just one of the sums of all the parts of this great country. Like many immigrant groups, they came to this country, worked hard and contributed to the fibre of our country — they have done so culturally in terms of the wonderful Mediterranean cuisine that we all enjoy, and that has emulsified into Canadian cuisine. It doesn’t matter whether you’re Asian, South Asian, Greek, Italian, Irish or French; you put it all together, and that’s what Canada represents — the best of all that the world has to offer.

The Lebanese community has excelled as entrepreneurs. We’ve seen this from coast to coast to coast. They have added to the cultural fabric of this country. Many who fled Lebanon came to this country already being officially bilingual — they didn’t need to enrol in the French immersion program — and they blended into that fibre in terms of our bilingualism. The Lebanese community is vibrant in Halifax — in English.

[Translation]

The Lebanese community is also vibrant in Montreal — in French. It is a minority community, but one that is well integrated into Quebec, in French.

[English]

In Canada, we have many examples of members of the Lebanese community who have excelled in all walks of life. In athletics, Nazem Kadri is an NHL hockey player and Stanley Cup champion; and Marwan Hage is a Grey Cup champion who played for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. There have been many politicians of Lebanese descent. The former premier of Prince Edward Island, Joe Ghiz, was such a good premier that, years later, they elected his son as premier.

In the Parliament of Canada, in our own chamber, Senator Pierre De Bané was one of those giants from whom I learned about how to do my job in the upper chamber. Ziad Aboultaif is a Conservative member of Parliament from Alberta. Lena Metlege Diab is a Liberal member of Parliament from Nova Scotia. Fayçal El-Khoury is the Liberal Member of Parliament for Laval—Les Îles. There are so many others, including Kevin O’Leary — we can go on and on. We all recognize their great contributions.

I thank Senator Cordy for moving this bill — it is important. Some will make the argument that we already have too many heritage months and too many days, and pretty soon we’re going to run out of days. Senator Plett and I have had a couple of debates on this in private. I am of the view that our institution has to represent all the sums of our country, and we have to celebrate the contributions of every single group. If we have a multiple number of celebrations on a multiple number of days, so be it. At the end of the day, we, as parliamentarians, have to recognize and celebrate our diversity. That’s what being Canadian is all about. That is why I wholeheartedly support this initiative by Senator Cordy, and I hope that we provide it with unanimous support. Thank you, colleagues.

Hon. Leo Housakos: I’d like to adjourn the debate in my name.

Hon. Leo Housakos: It’s not we who are impugning the Prime Minister’s integrity, government leader; it’s his lack of action on a very serious subject that is calling into question his integrity and judgment.

Senator Gold, news broke yesterday that the FBI arrested two people who were operating a secret police station in New York City on behalf of the communist regime in Beijing. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the two individuals conspired to work as agents of the Chinese Communist Party and took orders from the regime in order to track down and silence Chinese dissidents living in the United States.

Senator Gold, we know that we have several of those clandestine police stations also operating right here in Canada in violation of Canadian sovereignty and Canadian law. As a matter of fact, one of the individuals arrested by the FBI yesterday had photos on his phone of one of those illegal stations operating right here in Canada.

Senator Gold, do we know if this individual was here in Canada? Has the RCMP taken steps to question this individual in connection to the stations in Canada? Also, can you tell me why no charges have been laid yet in any of these Canadian cases? Was anyone expelled from Canada as a result of our investigation? Have there been any consequences against the communist operatives who are undertaking similar efforts right here in Canada?

Senator Housakos: You are right, government leader: There were many questions in my question. The reason for that is because the questions keep piling up because we’re not getting any concrete answers, just like I didn’t get any in that answer just now.

Senator Gold, part of the allegations against the two individuals is that they targeted Falun Gong, for instance, by rounding up members of the Chinese diaspora and busing them to various locations to counter-protests for Falun Gong demonstrations, with the Chinese consulate paying each of those individuals $60.

That sounds eerily familiar to what is alleged to have taken place at a certain Liberal nomination meeting, doesn’t it?

Other allegations are the previously mentioned two operatives would track down Chinese dissidents living in the U.S. and threaten them and their families in order to force them to return to China to be arrested by communist authorities there. Again, that is exactly in line with what we’ve heard from Canadians of Chinese descent.

So why, Senator Gold, is your government not moving to do more to protect such people here in Canada? You say you don’t want the diaspora communities to feel afraid. The Prime Minister has said that on many occasions. They are already afraid, and your government is doing nothing about it. You’re more concerned about protecting the very people that Canadians of Chinese descent are afraid of.

When will this Prime Minister stop vacillating on the question of foreign influence from Beijing?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, I rise today to give thanks to Mesut Kacmaz, Meral Kacmaz, Murat Acar and Candan Acar, four Turkish-Canadian victims of torture who were brave enough to share their stories with me last month here in Ottawa.

In September 2017, teachers Mesut and Meral Kacmaz, along with their two children, were illegally abducted from Pakistan and taken to Turkey, where they were arbitrarily detained and tortured. Murat Acar was a radiologist and his wife, Candan, was a teacher. They, along with their two children, were illegally abducted from Bahrain and sent to Turkey in October 2016, where they, too, were arbitrarily detained and tortured. These two families sought refuge in Canada after escaping persecution in Turkey, and are now proud to call Canada home.

When we met last month, we spoke about the targeted sanctions submission they filed with Global Affairs, asking the Government of Canada to implement targeted sanctions against the 12 Turkish officials they have identified as responsible for the gross violations of human rights committed against them and against their friend Gökhan Açıkkollu, who was tortured to death in Turkish prison around the same time.

Colleagues, the human rights situation in Turkey is appalling. What happened to these Canadians are examples of a serious and worrying escalation of human rights abuses in Turkey. Since 2016, the Turkish government has detained over 300,000 people, including thousands of prosecutors and judges, and shut down more than 2,000 institutions and 131 media outlets. Turkey detained so many journalists that, for a time, they were the worst jailer of journalists in the world.

There is evidence that detainees are tortured and raped, and hundreds have died in prison. United Nations mechanisms, including the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention and the UN Human Rights Committee, have found repeatedly that Turkish officials are responsible for serious human rights violations in this context.

Impunity is pervasive in Turkey, and as Turkish law enforcement is demonstrably unwilling to penalize those responsible, it is up to the international community, including Canada, to hold to account those officials that are responsible for gross human rights violations — especially, colleagues, now that we have Canadian victims of the Erdoğan regime. We owe it to them to do what we can to help them seek justice for the crimes committed against them.

Thank you.

[Translation]

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader and it has to do with user-generated content and digital-first content providers. It’s nice to hear the minister say that digital users and content providers will not be part of this Bill C-11. It’s nice to hear the sponsor of the bill say it in this chamber. It’s great and reassuring to hear it in your speech. But the reality of the matter is the amendments that we sent over in good faith which made it clear that user-generated content would not be caught up in the web that’s being spun by this piece of legislation were rejected by the government.

My question is a very simple one: Why wouldn’t the government accept those amendments making it clear in the law — not a commitment on the part of government — that user-generated content will be excluded and carved out? Why did the government reject those amendments given the fact that we should take it at face value and accept that those amendments would put in the law the stated intent of what you just shared with us in your speech?

Senator Housakos: With all due respect, government leader, this is a very important legislative process. We have an obligation to debate all aspects of the bill, even elements of the bill, government leader, that you don’t like to talk about.

I think you have an obligation in this chamber to answer all questions that directly and indirectly apply to this particular bill and the Broadcasting Act. These were all elements that were dealt with, not just amendments that were refused or rejected.

Furthermore, we have a capable Speaker in the chair, and I think it’s incumbent on that Speaker to do her job, and you can focus on doing yours.

I have one other question, government leader, since I haven’t had any answers to the questions thus far. The bill makes it clear. There are a number of sections that talk about amplifying minority groups in this country and diversity groups. That’s clear in the bill. It’s within the scope of the bill. That includes Indigenous Canadians.

Can you explain to me how we’re passing a bill, a broadcasting act, that’s so preoccupied with — and this government has their heart set on — supporting diversity, supporting Indigenous voices, yet when it comes to this year’s budget, you cut millions of dollars from the Indigenous Screen Office that would be going to Indigenous communities in order to amplify Indigenous voices?

Here is another example where you pass a law for posterity’s sake, yet in practical terms, in this current budget that you passed recently, you actually cut funding to the Indigenous Screen Office.

Hon. Leo Housakos moved the adoption of the report.

He said: Honourable senators, I rise to speak to the Fourth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications.

Bill S-242 seeks to amend the Radiocommunication Act to require spectrum licence holders to deploy the spectrum to at least 50% of the population within the geographic area covered by the spectrum licence.

Our committee has made six amendments to this bill. The first is to clause 1, on page 1, and replaces lines 7 to 15 to ensure that those buying Tier 1 to 4 licences would not be able to meet deployment conditions by simply deploying to the urban areas within those large tiers but would also be required to provide service to the smaller, rural and remote areas nestled within in order to meet their obligations under this legislation.

It also lays the foundation for other amendments focusing on the “use it or share it” regime. Additionally, it provides ministerial flexibility to either outright revoke the licence or to reallocate Tier 5 areas within the licence to other providers who are ready and able to service the underserved areas.

The second amendment is to clause 1, on page 1, and adds language that would clarify the intent to ensure licence holders cannot sell the licences up to and including three years minus a day in an effort to avoid penalties for not complying with licence conditions.

The third amendment is to clause 1, on page 2; it replaces and adds text subsequent to the previous amendment to provide the flexibility of subordinate or subsection competition.

The fourth amendment is to clause 1, on page 2, and adds that the minister be required to start a competitive bidding process within 60 days of not only the revocation of a spectrum licence but also where the licence holder has voluntarily surrendered their licence as a result of them not being able to meet their licensing obligations.

The fifth amendment was to clause 1, on page 2, in which line 32 was replaced to address concerns over the ability of smaller proponents to raise the required capital to participate in the competitive bidding process, giving the minister the flexibility to use a competitive bidding process or other reallocation process — such as a first-come, first-served model — when a licence is revoked or surrendered.

The final amendment is to clause 1, on page 2, and adds new text after line 35 that would ensure a company doesn’t repetitively relicense spectrum in order to limit competition or stop others from licensing spectrum in a specific geographic area.

It also adds language that would prevent the company from re-bidding under a different name.

There are also observations from three members of the committee, which were endorsed by the committee as follows:

Senator Clement noted the importance of this bill in raising awareness to the major problem of connectivity in Canada and the serious impacts on communities who lack connectivity, including Indigenous communities, and the impact this plays on Canada’s reconciliation process.

Senator Clement also noted that this topic has been neglected and that this bill is a good contribution to the much-needed discussion but that it is only a small piece of the puzzle, with many valuable suggestions from witnesses falling outside the scope of this bill.

Senator Clement observed that, in recognition of the work done by our committee, we call on the Government of Canada to undertake an exhaustive review of spectrum policy in Canada.

Senator Dennis Patterson’s observations echoed many of Senator Clement’s — in particular, the need to improve rural and remote connectivity and the serious consequences of not doing so as it pertains to vital services such and health and education, as well as the enhancement of language and culture in remote Indigenous communities.

Senator Patterson also observed that the government should develop incentives and policies that foster competition and facilitate the entry of Indigenous proponents.

This is where I will make what I consider a timely observation as chair.

Colleagues, throughout a previous study by our committee, we kept hearing testimony that legislation would promote and amplify Indigenous voices, but Indigenous creators themselves told us that the biggest barrier to having their voices heard on the internet is neither the definition of CanCon nor any algorithm. It’s the inability to actually get onto the internet because of a lack of connectivity.

Finally, Senator Cormier noted that there is currently no official database of all undeployed spectrum in Canada; Canada does not have a system to ensure transparency in the secondary market for licences; and the spectrum management by auction, based on a competitive system, is not well suited to the Canadian geographic and economic reality, according to one of our witnesses.

I want to thank Senator Patterson of Nunavut for putting forward this bill. It was a very enlightening experience, I think, for the whole committee. We discovered a number of concerns. It wasn’t long ago that Canada was a world leader when it came to communications, and we’re slipping. Of course, now we’re seeing deep inequities between rural and urban Canada.

I do not think that this bill is a magic wand that will solve the problem overnight. The problem is too profound and pronounced. Obviously, we have deep challenges and, of course, challenges of economy of scale. I do not think there is a quick fix, but I think the committee feels that this is a good first step in addressing the issue, and hopefully will serve as a basis to encourage governments to work in collaboration with stakeholders and communities in order to find a better solution to the problems. Thank you, colleagues.