Hon. Fabian Manning: Honourable senators, to say in most cases that you are pleased to speak on a piece of legislation — that’s usually how you start your comments, but, believe you me, I’m not necessarily pleased to be speaking on Bill C-39.

Hon. Fabian Manning: Honourable senators, to say in most cases that you are pleased to speak on a piece of legislation — that’s usually how you start your comments, but, believe you me, I’m not necessarily pleased to be speaking on Bill C-39.

While I have great respect for Senator Kutcher and, certainly, his opinion, I respectfully disagree with much of what he has said. When we started the debate on medical assistance in dying back in 2016, every weekend I travelled home to Newfoundland and Labrador and I went to see my dad who spent the last two years in bed before he passed away in May of that year. I struggled with MAID at that time for obvious reasons, and I still struggle with parts of it today.

What concerned me in 2016 still concerns me in 2023. One of those concerns was what we call the opening of the barn door. I don’t necessarily agree with what Senator Kutcher said in relation to some of the slippery slope concerns, but we could also lean in that direction.

My concern back then was, and is today, that when we start this process, where do we draw the line? When does there come a time when we look and say that we need to put the brakes on? We had a parliamentary committee, and I congratulate them on their work, and I know everybody does this for the right reason when talking about extending MAID to children.

My concern is the snowball effect. We all know the story of the snowball at the top of the hill. We let it roll down. As it rolls down, it picks up speed and it gets larger and larger. By the time it reaches the bottom of the hill, in some cases, it is too large to handle. My concern also is the vulnerable people who are out there who are suffering from mental health illnesses. Certainly, I agree with Senator Kutcher in talking about more resources, such as finance resources and human resources. They are lacking right across this country, and they are lacking in my home province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We need to have more financial resources and human resources put in.

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It is the evolution of mental health illness over time. I look back at our parents’ generation, and they had no — or very little — understanding of mental health; I remember this while growing up as a young boy in my hometown of St. Bride’s. Now I know — I didn’t know then — that there were people in that community who were suffering — and still are — from mental health issues. But our comment was always “There’s something wrong with him, or something wrong with her.” It wasn’t mean-spirited in any way, shape or form. It was just the way it was. It was the lack of understanding, lack of education and lack of knowledge. Maybe, more importantly, it was the lack of having a conversation about it.

Today, most of us — and I do not pretend in any way, shape or form to have an understanding of mental health that Senator Kutcher may have in his profession — have a limited understanding of mental health issues. We all read, we all listen and we all have a great opportunity here in this chamber to hear others talk about it — to hear from people with a background in dealing with mental health. We can understand more, and educate ourselves more, so that we can pass that on to others. That is a privilege that we have here in this chamber that many across this country don’t have.

As I said, in today’s generation — because we’re talking about it more, and because it is not a taboo subject anymore — we are gaining a limited understanding of mental health issues. The present generation — our children — are developing a much better understanding. I truly believe that, and I truly hope that, because they are gaining a much better understanding, they will, in turn, have much better ways of dealing with mental health issues in the future.

Mental health is unpredictable. It is not like physical health when we have a broken leg or broken arm. There are very troubling diseases that people live with for their lifetime.

Respecting, and showing respect, love and understanding to people suffering with mental health is something that we all need to work toward.

The purpose of Bill C-39, as put forward by the government, is to extend it for another year. If I believed that we are extending it for another year to ascertain across the country if we are doing the right thing regarding mental health issues — or we are trying to figure out if we are doing the wrong thing in bringing this forward — I may find some way of being able to support it. But I truly believe, in my humble opinion, that the reason we have Bill C-39 is because there has been such a backlash across the country from people who are very concerned about where MAID is going, and very concerned about the snowball effect. I think that is why we are sitting here today dealing with a piece of legislation that is asking for another year.

The government is not asking for another year to determine the path they want to travel. They are asking for another year so they can, hopefully, bring the numbers up on the polling that’s been done in order to ensure their side of the story is being accepted.

Again, I have some great concerns with how that’s been done.

I’m not a medical doctor; I’m not a psychiatrist. I have not received training in health care; I have not received training in the legal side of things. I am just an individual who is aware of several people who are living with, and have lived with, for their lifetime, poor mental health issues — people, in my view, who require help and assistance from all levels of government and all levels of the health care profession. They don’t need help in dying.

I understand the sensitivity of this issue, and I respect everyone else’s opinion. Some people have different backgrounds than I have. Some people have different ways of dealing with things in how they accept — or don’t accept — mental health issues. I am not going to judge anybody else on their opinion of that.

I respectfully disagree with assisted dying, I respectfully disagree with the extension that we’re talking about here today and I respectfully disagree with extending assisted dying to children.

I think we should be talking about counselling, and bringing more counsellors in. I think we should be talking about therapy — extra therapy. I think we should be talking about ways to try to deal with this very serious issue that we face in this country today.

I am not going to belabour the point. I just wanted the opportunity today to say a few words in order to put my opinions on the record — for what they may be worth.

It’s very ironic because I was travelling to Newfoundland last week, and I stopped at a local business. I’m always looking for books — I love to read — especially books related to Newfoundland and Labrador in any way, shape or form — particularly, the history of the province and the people that made the place that I’m so proud to call home. I stopped into a store, and I picked up a book — and the book is called From The Shadows: Surviving the Depths of Mental Illness.

I also believe in faith. There is a reason for everything — again, in my humble opinion.

From The Shadows is written by E. Pauline Spurrell who suffered mental illness issues all her life. She lives in the small community of Hillview in Newfoundland with her husband Don; they have for almost 40 years. They have one son, Andrew. It’s a compelling story — I will not get into all the details today — but for anyone who wants to become educated about the concerns of how people deal with mental health, or for anyone who wants to learn from someone who has lived it within very tragic circumstances, I suggest that you buy a copy of her book.

After a joyful early childhood, E. Pauline Spurrell suffered trauma that led to unhinged teenage years and a turbulent adult life. She was diagnosed — and misdiagnosed — with numerous mental illnesses. She endured a seemingly endless cycle of prescription treatment and failure until, one day, enough was enough. Following the years lost in the depths of despair, she fostered ideologies of self-discovery. Spurrell created tools to understand her disorders and the resulting impacts on her life. She reclaimed priority, found the inner child she had left behind and emerged from the shadows as a portrait puzzle of perfect imperfections.

I had the opportunity yesterday — after reading her book last week — to speak to Spurrell for about an hour on the phone in order to gain some insight. Again, I don’t have the background; I just have the privilege to be here in the Senate of Canada to participate in the debate on important legislation like the one we have before us. I spoke to Spurrell, and she is now living a full and happy life. She is still suffering from bouts of mental illness, mind you, but she found a way out. She was medicated to the hilt with medication that I wouldn’t even bother to try to pronounce here today.

She found a way out. There were times when she was in desperate situations; you can read about it in her book. The trauma is unbelievable. But she found a way out.

In reading the book, I found a reason not to be supportive of assisted dying for people who are suffering from mental health illness. I found a reason to stand here today and say a few words and to tell you the story of people like Pauline who found a different way, who found an avenue from a life of despair, a life of trauma, a life of tragedy. And she found a way to be able to live a full and happy life with her husband, Don, her son Andrew and her family and friends.

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These are not easy discussions, honourable senators. In all my time here, we have had many pieces of legislation dealing with financial issues, and from time to time we can agree and disagree on how we deal with the fiscal policies of this country.

We have, from time to time, dealt with legislation that is very personal and brings out different parts of us that we don’t even know we have, sometimes. This is one of those pieces of legislation.

I believe the snowball effect of medical assistance in dying is not going to stop with Bill C-39. I strongly believe that, for those who have the opportunity to spend more time here, we will be dealing with another part of that snowball in the not-too-distant future.

As I said, I’m no expert. I’m no expert on dealing with some of these serious issues, but I am a person who is living a life, and I respect the opportunity for others to live theirs.

Thank you.