Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you very much for your concern about wild Atlantic salmon which is, indeed, an iconic species and in trouble. We’re dedicated to helping the stock recover and grow.

I am in the process of developing Canada’s first wild Atlantic salmon conservation strategy. I had some briefings on that in recent weeks. We are working very closely with Indigenous people on the development and implementation of the strategy. We have been working with a number of partners to finance some of them in order to ensure the recovery of wild Atlantic salmon, and I look forward to continuing to do that.

With respect to any specific document, I’m happy to follow up, and have the department share it with the senator.

(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question. I will commit to getting a briefing and reviewing the situation that the senator is describing.

The reality is that funds go through Treasury Board, and any funds we have access to are dedicated to specific initiatives that we’ve committed to. Whether there is funding for the Inuvialuit conservation research processes, I can’t answer right now.

However, I spent a week travelling the Arctic, starting in the Northwest Territories and going right through to the eastern coast of the Arctic, to understand the critical issues. I met with Indigenous peoples wherever I went and heard about the concerns and opportunities that they see in front of them. I’m very committed to our Arctic region. We recently stood up a new Arctic region that will be based out of Iqaluit because we want to have a presence on the ground, but we have not been able to move all our public servants there yet. That is taking time because of the increase in wages and the cost of housing and office space. However, I spent a number of days talking with the Canadian Coast Guard.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for asking about that very important program because, as with the rest of the Greening Government Strategy, my ministry will need to progress on decarbonization as part of our government’s climate plan for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

I was on a Canadian Coast Guard vessel doing icebreaking in the St. Lawrence estuary, as I mentioned before, and that’s one of the things that I spoke with the captain about. The changeover of engines will take a while. The power that is required for something like a Canadian Coast Guard icebreaker, even a medium-sized one, is almost half the size of this chamber here filled with large engines. So this will take some time.

In the meantime, the vessel, in many ways, is decarbonizing, through its shift to its electricity systems. Its provision of services is being done through a greener means. We will continue to explore ways that the fuel use can be greener and less greenhouse-gas-intensive over the years to come.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question. My ministry and I prioritize willing buyer/willing seller as a mechanism for addressing the treaty rights that Indigenous communities have to fish, and we do that wherever it’s possible.

In the case of the elver fishery, we were not able to secure a quota for the Indigenous communities that was priced in a way that we deemed to be affordable and reasonable, so that’s why I went to the fish harvesters and their representatives directly and asked how they can help make sure that the right to fish of the Indigenous fishers can be satisfied. The proposal that was put in place was actually the one that came from the quota holders.

I appreciated that cooperation which provided an opportunity for the Indigenous fishers to have a share in that fishery, and from my perspective, that had multiple benefits.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: We’ve been working very hard to create opportunities and working with the Indigenous communities to launch their own fisheries in lobster, crab and other species, and I’ve been very pleased at the evolution of these measures to respect treaty rights and the importance of having the opportunity to be part of the fishery on the part of the First Nations.

I’m going to continue to work towards that further allocation of opportunities for First Nations. Of course, conservation is very important, and that’s why we have compliance and enforcement doing their work. Non-Indigenous and Indigenous alike, we need fish harvesters to respect the rules so that we don’t overfish the stock and create problems down the road.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: It’s unfortunate that the CCGS Alfred Needler was not able to serve out its expected vessel life. The best available science is important to our allocation of catch in the fisheries. There are other sources of science that we will be using. As I mentioned before, the fishing information about where and how much of the stock has been caught provides data. We work with Indigenous communities on their science and data, as well as the fish harvesters, and we will make sure that we have data to base our decision on. Of course, the stronger the data, the higher the allocation we can make.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question. I would contest, really, the characterization that we don’t have any data. The ministry is very committed to working from the best available science. There are sometimes reversals that make it difficult to do everything that we would like to do, but we have a very committed set of ministry officials who are working with the harvest community in most cases to develop robust data that is complemented, of course, by the trawl surveys. There are other sources of data that they feed into the algorithms as well, and we will always do our very best to have good-quality data that is done in a way that we can count on.

[Translation]

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you, senator, for that question. I won’t speak to what has happened in the past, but I will say that it is our government’s strong commitment to respect the moderate livelihood fisheries rights of the Mi’kmaq people. To that end, we have had a number of initiatives that have enabled us to ensure that those communities have access to training, to equipment and to allowable catch so that this treaty obligation can be honoured.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that very important and compassionate question. My heart goes out to the families of the fish harvesters that you referred to whom we were not able to assist in time.

I’ve asked the Canadian Coast Guard to give me the model on which search and rescue stations are based. It is about the diameter of coverage and the time it would take to be in place to assist. The Canadian Coast Guard optimizes the resources it has to provide the best possible coverage on the coast. The St. Anthony base is the one that provides service to the Labrador coast, but it’s not just search and rescue. There are many resources on the Labrador coast that are auxiliary Canadian Coast Guard teams, as well as other resources that complement major search and rescue and the helicopter.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thanks for asking about that accomplishment. I was delighted as well, of course, to see that there is framework emerging to have international agreement on protecting the high seas.

In terms of the next steps, we will continue to work with the international community on how to move forward regarding protected areas in the open seas. This is about biodiversity; it’s about conservation areas; it’s about conservation of stock, and standards for those things. There will be next steps. Again, I can follow up with you with specific next steps that my department will be undertaking, but — I can assure you — I am an enthusiastic champion for ocean conservation and protected areas.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: In terms of the last question, senator, that decision is yet to be taken. In terms of the mackerel fishery shutdown, it’s always difficult to close a fishery because I know the impact that it has on fish harvesters and their communities. In fact, I just spent last week in Eastern Canada, the Gaspé and the Magdalen Islands hearing from fish harvesters from a number of stocks.

With respect to the mackerel, the science was very clear that this stock is in the critical zone, and it has been there for more than a decade. There has been a collapse of mackerel age class. I actually have the spawning stock biomass document with me. When I read it, I was severely concerned about the stock.

It’s never easy to do that, but the reason is for conservation purposes for the long term. We want to be able to provide an opportunity for the stock to recover. It’s an important source of food for many other fish stocks, as it is important for use as bait. But if we continue to fish it down its curve, we may never see it recover. That’s why I have taken this precautionary approach.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question. No, I don’t have an estimate with me, but I’m happy to ask my department to forward you any information that they may have.

I would like to add that the Canadian Coast Guard is expected — by Canadians — to have modern capabilities. We, as a government, have chosen to stand up a new shipbuilding industry. We have shipyards on the West Coast and the East Coast, and we are in the process of adding a third shipyard in Quebec. That decision has meant some delays and some challenges, but we have already delivered quite a number of the Coast Guard ships — some 15 of 20 small ships, and 3 large ships — so I’m pleased to be welcoming this new fleet as it rolls out of the shipyards. We’ll continue to do our very best to have this happen in a timely and effective way.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thanks for that question. Racism in any of its aspects is completely unacceptable. My ministry has a number of programs to increase the sensitivity of DFO’s staff to potential racism and to ensure that that’s not something we’re bringing into the communities. There does need to be compliance and enforcement of rules, and it needs to be done in a culturally sensitive way.

Conservation is my number one responsibility as the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard because if we are not conserving our stock, we are doing a disservice and injustice to the next generations, who count on being able to enjoy the economic benefits of stock. That’s what enforcement is all about.

We work closely with the Indigenous communities to ensure that our approach is appropriate to the situation and to their culture in order to avoid any racism or perception of racism.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question. I am very aware that seals eat fish and I have been quite public on my views on that. It’s why I hosted a Seal Summit in St. John’s last year and brought together Indigenous communities, seal harvesters, fish harvesters, as well as the product developers and marketers to explore how we can actually harvest the sustainable natural resource which is the seal population.

As the senator is probably aware, a cull creates a great risk of having the United States apply the Marine Mammal Protection Act and block imports of our seafood and fish from going into the United States. The U.S. is a very important market for our fish harvesters, so we cannot take measures that risk that market.

What I am doing is encouraging that we develop the seal harvest and product industry. That’s why I joined the seal celebration in Gaspé just a few days ago, where I met with some of the seal harvesters, including a young emerging group of seal harvesters, and enjoyed a seal hamburger in their celebration of the seal harvest.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question, senator. First, I want to assure all senators that we make the decisions at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, or DFO, based on the best available science. In the case of the turbot stock, there was a temporary gap in the science due to the fact that the ship that had been doing the assessments, which was provided by Greenland because we have a shared stock, was temporarily not in service.

For that year, we were still able to utilize the data from the time series of assessments over the past 10 years as well as fish harvester data to have an assessment, albeit the trawling had not been done that year. We were slightly more precautionary because of the absence of the trawling data, but this was a temporary issue and Greenland’s vessel that was out of commission has now been replaced.

We made a one-year decision on the tack rather than the normal two-year decision because we knew that we would be able to fill that data gap when Greenland provided the vessel, again, a year later. I’m confident in our ability to manage the stock, and I will continue to make sure that conservation underpins everything we do.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thanks for that question. My primary concern is the wild Pacific salmon stocks on the coast of British Columbia. Those stocks are in deep trouble. Many of them are listed under either the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, or COSEWIC, or the Species at Risk Act, or SARA. Those wild salmon stocks have long been an absolutely critical source of food security, but also food, social and ceremonial use by literally dozens of First Nations in the interior of British Columbia.

I did wide consultation with First Nations both on the coast and in the interior, as well as with industry. Based on the fact that there are many pressures on the wild salmon — some of which we can do nothing about, like climate change, warming Fraser River waters and habitat loss — what we can control, we need to control because it is simply not an option for us to lose wild Pacific salmon. So there’s that, as well as the fact that the Discovery Islands were identified as a vulnerable area because of the migration of salmon through that area. Justice Cohen spent two years examining this situation and recommended that it be a priority area to consider not allowing salmon aquaculture. Consider also the fact that more recent science was showing that there are risks that bad pathogens and parasites can affect the juvenile salmon. Altogether, these were my reasons that I felt compelled to not renew the licences in the Discovery Islands.

(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Hon. Rose-May Poirier: Minister, the Miramichi River — one of the greatest Atlantic salmon rivers of the world, supporting both Indigenous and recreational fisheries — is in crisis. The problem is predation. Science collected in 2022 indicates that only 3.8% of smolt, which is baby salmon, made it to the ocean through the iron curtain of striped bass in the estuary. As a result of this low number, the 2022 year class of salmon in the Northwest Miramichi River is lost due to striped bass predation.

As Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, are you now prepared to move forward on an urgent basis to implement — in the spring of 2023 — the recommendations from the recent Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, or DFO, study? If so, which ones are your priorities?

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thanks for that question. While the collaboration between DFO and other departments is not perfect — and we always have more work to do — I would say that the Transport Canada and DFO collaboration is very strong. We have worked together on the Oceans Protection Plan, for example, which is, at this point, I think, a $2.5-billion investment that has had very strong and positive impacts on Indigenous reconciliation.

With respect to the vessel discharge of waters, I took a personal interest in that before being appointed as the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, and worked with two consecutive Transport Canada ministers. There is movement on that. There are measures being put in place to match some of our neighbouring nations in terms of their vessel discharge. I have shared the concern about discharge into vulnerable waters, and will continue to keep a close eye on our progress as a government in that regard.