Senator Gold: Thank you for your question.

I won’t repeat myself; I know others are waiting to ask me questions. I will give notice that I will continue answering questions, but I will not go until four o’clock.

I will not repeat what I said. I think this is a government priority. This government is entitled to advance its priorities and objectives. Pre-study, I think, is a responsible tool we can use to do the work for which we were summoned.

With regard to your further question about the time that may remain in our sitting, we are getting ahead of ourselves. We are here to debate a pre-study and not what the ultimate path of this legislation may be.

Senator Gold: Thank you.

To your first question, Senator Housakos, it remains to be seen what emerges from our pre-study. It remains to be seen what emerges in the bill once we do get it. Whether the concerns expressed still hold water, I fully expect some of the political posturing around the bill to continue — that is the nature of politics — but the bill has been adjusted to take into account the concerns that were expressed.

I cannot say until we roll up our sleeves and study how long the committee will need to study it, at which point the leaders — as is our practice — will get together and see what the next steps might be. That will happen once we know when the bill is going to arrive.

With regard to your last question, again, I did my best to state the case in the speech; I won’t repeat it. However, I will remind you that there is a large community that defines our identity — those creative individuals and groupings in our society who provide content that defines us as who we are. It is not just as it has been in the past, being an elite from Montreal or Toronto. We are a diverse country. The Broadcasting Act, which Bill C-11 seeks to modernize, is not adequate to provide adequate space or place for those who represent more marginalized communities in our country.

It is the money that Canadian content providers are not receiving and will not receive until this bill is passed, and the space that needs to be created in our regulatory framework to reflect the diversity of our country so that Canadian content and art can truly be a reflection of who we are, as this place has become. The Broadcasting Act, alas, lags far, far behind.

Hon. Scott Tannas: Senator Gold, thank you for your speech. As Senator Plett has mentioned, it is a relatively rare occasion. Our research bureau, I think, tallied it at somewhere around 20 pre-studies that had been nonfinancial in the last 32 years, of governments of all stripes and majorities and minorities, et cetera.

I agree, there are times when we should consider this, and this may, indeed, be one of them.

My understanding is this bill hasn’t even had a committee meeting yet in the House of Commons. It strikes me as almost a little too keen of us, a bit of apple-polishing to be running ahead of even the House of Commons and their committee meetings. Is that right? Am I clear that the committee has not yet met or seen witnesses on Bill C-11? If that is the case, would you suggest maybe we ought to wait until they’ve at least started their study and had a few witnesses so we can see where the direction is?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question and for raising the issue of gas prices, which we are all experiencing every time we fill up.

The government will always consider measures to assist Canadians through these difficult times. I’m sure that this matter remains under active consideration.

Senator Gold: Of course.

Senator Gold: The answer is no.

I could stop there, but since your question had a fair bit of preamble, I’ll take the liberty of elaborating. What the government wants is a balanced and sensible long-term approach for dealing with both economic and environmental issues for the benefit of all Canadians, including future generations.

[Translation]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question and your commitment to this important issue.

The Government of Canada recognizes that there is work to be done to improve the situation of victims. A number of measures have already been taken, and others are currently being developed. As soon as those measures are finalized and ready to be made public, I will announce them in this chamber.

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. I’ll certainly add that to my inquiries that I will be making of the government, and I will hope to report back in a timely fashion.

[Translation]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for highlighting this important issue that affects far too many people. Unfortunately, I do not have an answer to your question, but I will follow up with the government and endeavour to provide senators with the answer.

Senator Gold: Thank you for raising this in the chamber. Again, I regret I was not made aware that you had not received a response. I will certainly add your concerns to the inquiries that I will make now that I’m on notice.

Senator Gold: I’ll take all questions I can until I run out of steam.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question.

I would like to highlight the Minister of Transport’s commitment, set out in his mandate letter, to lead the effort to modernize ports. As you mentioned, the government launched a series of consultations and has received input that has been included in publicly available discussion papers. This work is ongoing, and I will keep the Senate informed of future steps. I will also bring your interest in this matter to the attention of Minister Alghabra.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): I thank the honourable senator for the question.

Canada considers climate change a global challenge requiring a global solution, as your question properly implies.

In that regard, Canada is taking a leadership role on the international stage to tackle climate change, including reaffirming our support for the Global Methane Pledge and Canada’s objective of reducing methane emissions in the oil and gas sector and committing to ending deforestation by 2030, amongst other initiatives.

With respect to the specifics of your questions, I’ll seek clarification from the government and report back to the chamber.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. I don’t want to presume your vote on this motion, Senator Quinn.

I’ll make inquiries as to what material can be provided. It is certainly open to the committee, once it is seized with the mandate of a pre-study, to request both from officials and from the government, and my office will use its good offices to facilitate that. I can’t give you a definitive answer about the specifics of what is appropriate to share at this juncture of the process.

Senator Gold: Of course.

Senator Boisvenu: Thank you, Senator Gold, for that non-answer.

Senator Gold, your government is far more active when it comes to improving the lives of criminals, and this is abundantly clear when you look at Bill C-75 passed in 2019, and now with Bill C-5. This bill ensures that serious crimes such as sexual assault, kidnapping and human trafficking will no longer be subject to prison sentences, but rather conditional sentences, which means they can be served in the offender’s living room.

Can you tell us, Senator Gold, what legislation the Liberal government plans to introduce to improve the rights of victims of crime in Canada?

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question.

I’m not convinced that the description of the bill we are anticipating to study soon is accurate, but I’ll let that go.

I don’t have any information I can share about upcoming bills, but as soon as a bill is introduced or announced, I will let you know right away.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate), pursuant to notice of May 17, 2022, moved:

That, in accordance with rule 10-11(1), the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications be authorized to examine the subject matter of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, introduced in the House of Commons on February 2, 2022, in advance of the said bill coming before the Senate; and

That, for the purposes of this study, the committee be authorized to meet even though the Senate may then be sitting or adjourned, with the application of rules 12-18(1) and 12-18(2) being suspended in relation thereto.

He said: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to government Motion No. 42, which authorizes the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications to examine the subject matter of Bill C-11, known as the online streaming act.

As honourable senators would know, Bill C-11 is essentially the revised version of the Forty-third Parliament’s Bill C-10 that died at the Senate committee stage at dissolution.

As you would recall, Bill C-10 was the subject of a fulsome and passionate debate at second reading in this place less than a year ago. On that occasion, we heard from the sponsor, Senator Dawson; the critic, Senator Housakos; and the Independent Senators Group legislative leads, Senators Dasko and Simons. As all four still occupy the same roles vis-à-vis Bill C-11, I anticipate we will have a reprise once Bill C-11 arrives to us. We also heard from Senators Richards, Bovey, Loffreda, Wallin, Downe, Colin Deacon and Miville-Dechêne. Different perspectives were shared, but all raised specific issues for the committee to focus on and all agreed on the importance of the committee study.

Today, I’m proposing that the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications be empowered to begin some of this work. As a refresher, and for the benefit of new colleagues in the Senate, rule 10-11(1) allows the subject matter of a bill to be referred to a Senate committee for study and analysis in advance of the bill’s passage in the other place. In essence, the procedure provides for a complementary examination that will work in tandem with the bill’s journey through the parliamentary process.

[Translation]

Bill C-11 will still need to go through each stage of the legislative process when it arrives in this chamber from the other place. In the meantime, members of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications will have the opportunity to better understand its substance, hear testimony from departmental officials and other witnesses, both pro and con, and begin to delve more deeply into the issues raised in the debates on Bill C-10 in the previous Parliament.

You may notice that the motion does not contain any time constraints for the committee, and that is intentional. The aim is simply to support the committee and ensure it has the tools and flexibility needed to organize and conduct its work as it sees fit, so that it can adapt the course of its analysis to the unpredictable environment of the House of Commons.

[English]

Honourable senators, I have heard loud and clear that senators want as much time as possible to focus on studying government legislation. You are insisting that there be sufficient time for adequate study and debate regardless of how quickly or not legislation arrives. It is in that spirit that I am proposing this motion. As masters of our own house, I believe we can and should use whatever tools are available to us so as to provide the critical review of government legislation which is at the core of our constitutional function and mandate. With the consent of this chamber, the authority to pre-study proposed legislation is within our power and affords us the time to properly scrutinize legislation without prejudice to the time that may be required once the bill has passed in the other place.

[Translation]

Government Motion No. 42 proposes that Bill C-11 be examined in advance and, in my opinion, it meets the criteria and the need for pre-study in the Senate. This would allow the committee to do extensive work and give it the authority to undertake the study of a bill at the top of the list of the parliamentary agenda, while having some flexibility with respect to how the work is done.

Colleagues, it is important to note that when Bill C-11 arrives in the Senate from the other place, it will have to go through every legislative stage in the manner and at the pace that this chamber decides.

[English]

This motion in no way prejudices the manner in which the Senate may choose to handle Bill C-11. To be clear, the Senate ultimately decides how many days and weeks it chooses to spend on second reading, on committee stage and on third reading of a government bill.

Colleagues, it is perfectly legitimate, healthy and natural for this government or any government to have ambitious objectives. After all, the political parties that form governments run on platforms and on promises made to the electorate. However, as Government Representative in the Senate, whether or not I like it, it is my burden to persuade the Senate to agree to the pacing of the work. All this motion does is launch a study that many senators have been keen on undertaking so that our institution, the Senate, may add value and sober reflection to this important policy initiative.

Colleagues, for all intents and purposes, Bill C-11 has been in Parliament since 2020. Its predecessor, Bill C-10, received robust study in the other place. It was referred to the Senate committee on June 29, 2021. What I am proposing is simply this: that we allow the committee to pick up where it left off and do some advance work.

Many concerns were raised at second reading when we initiated our work on the former Bill C-10. The committee can utilize some of those concerns to organize its work and to determine if some of the original concerns or issues were addressed by the changes introduced in Bill C-11, which the bill purports to do.

All can agree that this bill requires serious scrutiny. We all know that Bill C-11 is politically charged. That is why I believe that this bill needs the Senate. It needs a less partisan, more independent lens and I believe it needs it now. At the same time, it is important to understand that, should Bill C-11 be delayed, hundreds of millions of dollars targeted for allocation to Canadian content and Canadian creators of content would be lost. A delay would perpetuate the void in the Broadcasting Act for minority and marginalized communities.

[Translation]

Esteemed colleagues, pre-studies in the Senate are neither new nor rare. They are also not limited to money bills. In 2001, in his ruling, the Speaker of the Senate described the purpose of a pre-study in Senate practice as follows:

[English]

Pre-study has been a feature of Senate practice for more than thirty years. . . . Its purpose was to allow the Senate more time to examine bills, particularly complex or controversial bills, while accommodating the broad legislative time-table of the Government. At the same time, it permitted Senators greater input into the legislative process by allowing the work of the Senate to have some influence on the study of a bill while it was still in the other place.

Honourable senators, because we do such good committee work in this place, there are significant benefits to pre-studies.

[Translation]

By undertaking a pre-study, the committee has the opportunity of becoming aware of certain issues, of having the concerns of stakeholders heard in a timely manner, of eliciting formal comments and of suggesting changes that the other place could integrate into the bill before it is passed.

[English]

There’s also a significant benefit to the identification of core issues that the Senate may wish to focus on once it has received the legislation.

This is a factor that is not mentioned very frequently, but in my experience, it can be critical in preparing the Senate to deal with complex legislation.

Colleagues, with respect, I fundamentally disagree with the argument that pre-studies somehow undermine the Senate’s fundamental role of sober second thought. This is simply not my experience. I have seen the tangible impact of pre-studies in bringing issues ignored in the House to the forefront and ultimately bringing about real change, either through the House or the Senate.

In the Government Representative Office, we know how important they are because we routinely work to resolve issues arising out of Senate pre-studies through the House process or through targeted government and stakeholder engagement. Even when that is not possible, colleagues, our pre-studies ensure that the Senate is particularly ready to focus on core issues, often leading to sober second thought improvements accepted by the other place.

[Translation]

You will remember, esteemed colleagues, that when we debated the bill on medical assistance in dying, the issue of excluding mental health emerged as a major concern during the pre-study. When we received the bill, we knew that it was a fundamental issue, and we had the opportunity to discuss it fully, to carry out a comprehensive study, and, ultimately, to propose amendments that were accepted in the other place. We were ready to receive the bill, and our work made a difference.

[English]

I would also note that pre-studies are far from a new phenomenon, even as it pertains to non-budgetary matters. A cursory review of past parliaments reveals that there were 16 Senate pre-studies during the Forty-first Parliament alone under the former government. These included not only budget implementation acts or supply bills, but proposed legislation on topics as diverse as citizenship, national elections, First Nations rights, changes to the Criminal Code, the updating of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, or CSIS, and free trade agreements. Going back nearly 50 years to the Thirtieth Parliament in 1974, the Senate pre-studied 22 bills that included constitutional amendments, prevention of violent crime, authorities for pipeline construction, changes to unemployment insurance and the rules for the calling of national referendums.

Colleagues, I should like to add that both the Forty-first Parliament and the Thirtieth Parliament were majority governments led by Prime Minister Harper and Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau respectively, and the governing parties also held the majority of Senate seats during these years. Both chambers were in control of business, including the agenda and pacing of legislation, and yet, colleagues, Senate pre-studies were authorized and completed on numerous occasions before proposed legislation from the other place reached the Senate.

Now as colleagues well know, in a minority situation, the timing and passage of legislation are not in the government’s immediate control. This, as we know, complicates the downstream work that the Senate is expected to conduct. Colleagues, we have no control over the business of the other place. We do, however, control how it is handled here.

In this debate on this motion, we may hear that a pre-study may not be useful because there is a possibility that Bill C-11 could be amended in the House and that, when it arrives here, some of the provisions may be different than that which we would be studying in the pre-study. Again, respectfully, colleagues, this is not a compelling or persuasive argument.

Of course it is possible that Bill C-11 will be amended, but I just don’t know, nor does anybody else in this chamber. Every time a pre-study is approved in this place, that is a possibility — that is a variable. If the mere possibility that the bill may be amended by the House is a reason for the Senate not to proceed with a pre-study, then we would never pre-study any bills. If anything, House amendments brought after or during a pre-study are frequently responsive to concerns and issues highlighted not only by the opposition parties in the House but also in the Senate. This occurred on Bill C-12, the net-zero emissions bill and more recently on Bill C-3, the paid sick leave bill. This is one of the objectives of a pre-study. Who knows? It may very well happen on Bill C-11, and we should be glad if it does.

Once we have received the legislation and conducted a pre-study, we can examine whether the concerns expressed by the Senate were, in fact, addressed sufficiently or at all. If changes are indeed brought in the House, it’s entirely within the Senate’s prerogative to examine these changes, and it can do so in a very focused way because it has had the benefit of the previous draft of the bill and the findings of the pre-study.

Now, I have also heard it said dans les coulisses, as we say in French, that a pre-study is not useful because we may not even get this bill in time. Again, respectfully, this is not persuasive; this is entirely speculative.

I stand here as the Government Representative, and I’m telling you I do not know when it will arrive. It is nonetheless a top priority of the government that is doing all it can to get it to the finish line. It’s also because we don’t know when we’re going to get it — we don’t know when the bill will be with us — that a pre-study with no constraints and with a flexible frame of operation is helpful. Even if Bill C-11 does not make it to the Senate before the fall, I cannot see why a pre-study would be a waste of our time. The key point is this: I am proposing that we conduct some work, the work we do best, so that we may be in a position of preparedness for whenever we receive Bill C-11.

In my view — and I know this is a view shared not only in this chamber but by those interested observers of the work of the Senate over many, many parliaments — our committee work is our best work. I know that any advance work we do on Bill C-11 will pay dividends regardless of when we receive it.

Colleagues, it’s wise for us to have the foresight to use the tools we have to adapt to the challenges that we all experience posed by the capacity of our committees to meet and the unpredictability of the House’s passing of priority bills. Of course, we could simply wait and do nothing, but I prefer to propose government Motion No. 42 as a tool to manage these challenges.

[Translation]

I think we should take advantage of the time that we now have but may not have later, given the considerable constraints affecting committees. In fact, the adjustments we very recently made with respect to a hybrid Senate were intended to ensure that committees would have the greatest flexibility possible to carry out their work on government business in an appropriate and thorough manner.

[English]

This motion will allow for the committee to have the time to determine its work and to avail itself of additional committee slots as needed.

Colleagues, we all know that it will be difficult to ask committees to do intensive work at the tail end of our sittings because of the constraints that have been discussed ad nauseam in this chamber. As well, the unpredictability of house business may see bills arriving here sooner than anticipated. One simply cannot know. If this were the case with Bill C-11, a pre-study could morph into a formal study once second reading was complete and it had been referred to the committee.

It is also conceivable that even though a bill comes to us late, capacity issues around committee availability may have made it impossible to complete a pre-study. In such a scenario, the advance work that was achieved will be crucial to the review. We simply cannot let the capacity limitations that we face prevent us from achieving the work that Canadians expect us to do.

To quote our colleague Senator Saint-Germain when she spoke to Motion No. 30 on March 29:

We have the ability to do pre-studies on bills that we know will arrive late for our consideration in accordance with rule 10-11(1). This practice is beneficial because it allows us to be ready for debate and, eventually, amendments when the bills arrive in circumstances requiring a diligent and timely response.

Colleagues, isn’t that our job description? Isn’t that what we were summoned here to do — to be informed, to be ready for debate, ready for review, and, if necessary, ready to improve legislation by amending it?

I understand your frustration at my inability to provide you with a predictable time frame for the passage of these priority bills. I do wish I could give you a clearer picture. However, our work must still get done, and we’re the ones to make it happen. It is our responsibility to use whatever tools we have at our disposal to see that these bills aren’t given short shrift.

Allow me to quote from Senator Tannas, from February 8:

I think that the more tools we can have within our Rules, like pre-study — there is a process by which we approve that — the better.

On this, I agree with Senator Tannas. Honourable senators have been requesting and, in some instances, demanding more time for the review of proposed legislation.

On the same subject, I would like to quote my good friend Senator Plett, who said the following on November 16, 2011:

. . . I am proposing a pre-study in order to give this legislation the appropriate amount of time for discussion and debate.

He was requesting and brought forward a motion concerning a pre-study on, then, Bill C-18, Marketing Freedom for Grain Farmers Act. Senator Plett went on to say:

Our chamber must begin a pre-study to allow for the proper amount of study the bill deserves. As we are anticipating that this legislation will be before this chamber shortly, a pre-study would allow us the extra time to properly study this legislation — instead of rushing it through the committee process — just as Senator Peterson has asked us to do.

Ultimately, colleagues, his motion was not required, as I understand that closure was imposed in the other place, and the Senate was able to receive the bill in a timely way. However, the rationale that Senator Plett offered is demonstrably relevant to the issue before us today.

Motion No. 42 relies on much the same rationale as Senator Plett argued regarding Bill C-18. This is a request for time. In the same speech of November 16, 2011, Senator Plett also said:

If we are to pass this important piece of legislation, it is imperative that it receive Royal Assent before the Christmas break to allow Western Canadian farmers ample time and opportunity to find markets for their wheat and barley for the next crop year.

Colleagues, there is similar importance to moving forward with Bill C-11.

[Translation]

As I mentioned earlier, the delay in passing this bill will result in the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars for the stakeholders, our Canadian artists and creators. Furthermore, any delay would extend the current void in Canadian content for marginalized and minority communities and their artists.

[English]

There are some in this chamber who may want to make the debate around this motion one that is about us and the role of the Senate. Honourable senators — and I’m saying this with the utmost respect — this motion is not about us. It’s about the Canadians who create content and the constant efforts by Canadian content creators who have been waiting for years, if not decades, for the legal landscape in which they operate — and for which we as parliamentarians are responsible — to be modernized.

For those who may argue that there is no urgency in passing Bill C-11 and that it is not time-sensitive, again, I would respectfully disagree. In my view, depriving Canadian artists of deserved, earned income and tacitly permitting the absence of Canadian content in our broadcasting is an urgent, time-sensitive issue, and it is also a priority of this government.

To those of you in this chamber who have been tweeting their reservations around this legislation for nearly two years, I hope you will support this motion, because it will provide you with an early opportunity to test your assertions.

While some of you may not agree with Bill C-11, that is no reason to deny content creators the benefit of our work, of our due diligence. There is also no reason to tell content creators to wait again and to wait longer for the Senate to begin its work.

Whether we support Bill C-11 or not, our message as parliamentarians should be that we care about this industry, and we’re prepared to get down to business now.

[Translation]

I urge honourable senators to approve this motion and authorize the pre-study of Bill C-11. This bill must not be hastily studied because of time constraints over which we have no control. We have the power and the tools required to start our work as soon as possible, and it is incumbent upon us to use them.

[English]

I would like once again to quote the current Leader of the Opposition:

. . . for now I simply ask that all honourable senators join me in support of this pre-study motion. We are not, honourable senators, asking you to support the bill today. We are today asking you to support a study.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you.

Senator Gold: Again, Senator Plett, and with respect, I’m happy that you are proud and I’m happy that you talk to your colleagues. I talk to colleagues in the government that I represent.

I stand by what I said in my speech about the proposal before you. Certainly, the decision to come forward with a pre-study was a decision that we made in the Government Representative Office in the Senate. I hope that it will enjoy the support of a majority of senators. I think it’s the right thing for us to do.

[Translation]

Senator Gold: Well, thank you for confirming my assumption that some would like to make this a debate about the Senate or the government.

My position and the position of this government, the position of this Senate, which approved each and every one of the pre‑studies — it wasn’t the Prime Minister approving pre-studies in the Senate to which you referred, it was the Senate agreeing to doing pre-studies because the Senate collectively believed it was the appropriate thing to do.

It is my position as Government Representative that pre‑studies are a useful tool for the Senate to discharge its constitutional obligation. That’s why I’ve put this proposal forward. It is to give us the ability to do our jobs, to do our jobs freer from the constraints of time and in response to the legitimate demands and concerns expressed by so many of you in this chamber that we not be rushed to do our work.

I will not apologize for promoting the idea that this pre-study on this bill is a good thing. On the contrary, it is a very good thing. It is a good thing because it allows us to do our job for which we were summoned to do.