Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. What I can commit to is moving forward with the perspective that you just mentioned. As I said in another answer today, we have already taken steps to better educate new judges. Rona Ambrose introduced a bill to that effect that I strongly supported in both houses. It should help to better educate judges.

We have made changes to the legislation itself to build a better framework for sexual assault laws. That needs to continue. We are trying to incorporate the perspectives of women and other individuals who are marginalized by the justice system. Obviously, we are committed to continuing to make changes that will improve the justice system.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Plett, thank you. Minister Lametti, please go ahead.

Hon. Salma Ataullahjan: Minister, recently your government appointed Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime Benjamin Roebuck, whom I wish to congratulate on his new role. I am, however, concerned that this position was only filled after a 361‑day vacancy. During this time, a year’s worth of legislation impacting victims was not reviewed by an ombudsman for victims of crime. Alternatively, the position of the ombudsman for federally sentenced offenders was filled the day after it became vacant in 2018.

Why did it take your government so long to fill this critical position, and what message does it send to victims of crime that filling the position for ombudsman for federally sentenced offenders was clearly a greater priority for your government?

The Hon. the Speaker: Minister, I’m sorry, but your time has expired.

[English]

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator, for the question. I obviously won’t divulge any cabinet confidences, because I can’t. What I can say is that we are aware of the factors that you have cited in your question. As an example, I will talk about something that has happened very publicly: We have moved with our allies in a very concerted manner with respect to the situation in Ukraine. I think that in both material terms and leadership terms, the Ukrainian government of Volodymyr Zelenskyy would say that Canada has been one of the main contributors and leaders with respect to that current situation. It has been done through cooperation with NATO and G7 allies, and it has been coordinated.

I think it is fair to say you can expect the same kind of actions and the same kind of leadership from Minister Joly and the rest of our government.

Hon. Yonah Martin (Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Minister, my question for you is in the context of your role as vice-chair of the cabinet committee on Canada and the World.

Today, we are confronted with an unprecedented rise of a totalitarian axis of countries — that includes Russia and China — clearly prepared to use military force to achieve their ends. Most democratic states — Germany, the United Kingdom, Australia, India and Japan — are responding to this threat by refocusing on national security and building up their defence capabilities. Apart from a long-overdue and inadequate announcement on the North Warning System, Canada is doing absolutely nothing. Minister, what accounts for this total inaction?

Hon. Brian Francis: Minister Lametti, prior to the coming into force of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act in June 2021, the Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples heard from many witnesses who were critical of the federal consultation process.

Could you tell us what steps you and your department have taken in the last year to ensure that Indigenous people have the capacity to adequately and meaningfully participate in the co‑development of upcoming legislation as well as the action plan? I also want to know whether you have a plan to increase the use of mediation with Indigenous communities to prevent and resolve disputes and avoid the use of costly and time-consuming litigation.

Hon. Lucie Moncion: Thank you for being here in the Senate today. My question is about assistance for jury support organizations.

Organizations with a mission to provide support to jurors need funding to implement the recommendations set out in the 2018 report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in the other place, entitled Improving support for jurors in Canada.

The report takes into account jurisdictional issues that limit the support the federal government can provide. Federal funding for non-governmental entities is therefore a critical part of successfully moving this issue forward.

Could you tell us how your department supports these organizations?

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you for that question, senator, and I share the place from which that question comes.

As a government, we have committed to implementing the Calls to Action of the TRC. You have cited one of them. That one will require, in particular, work with the Minister of Health as we move forward, as well as cooperation with the provinces, which administer the criminal justice system across Canada as part of their constitutional responsibilities.

But I commit to being an active participant in the implementation of that as we move forward.

I will be honest that, for the time being, my goal is to get Bill C-5 over the finish line, which also responds to a TRC Call to Action regarding the overrepresentation of Indigenous people in the criminal justice system, to take one measure.

There are other measures that need to be taken, and I strongly feel that the question of fetal alcohol spectrum disorder will also be something that comes up both in the context of our elaboration of an Indigenous justice strategy and a Black justice strategy, and then in concert with the Minister of Health we can move forward.

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. I said at the committee, and I will repeat now for the whole of the Senate, that I think this is what is possible now. There are a number of mandatory minimum penalties which I think the vast majority of the Canadian public would not agree to repeal — sexual assault offences and sexual offences against children, for example, are things that I think the Canadian public would not accept — or there are other questions that would need to be addressed first. For example, in the North, we need to address housing quite badly before we can think about certain mandatory minimum penalties because there aren’t options for places to go that are safe. We have invested in shelters and that sort of thing in the North, but more work needs to be done. I sincerely believe this is where we are now.

Hon. Kim Pate: At the Legal Committee last week, you discussed with Senator Cotter the fact that every major sentencing law reform Indigenous inquiry has called for the repeal of all or at the very least this clause for structural discretion of the type that former Chief Justice McLachlin recommended in Lloyd, yet you have decided not to implement that. What is your government planning to do to remedy this situation? And have you considered a reference to the Supreme Court of Canada on this issue?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, more than three years ago, Anne McLellan tabled a report about the SNC-Lavalin affair. Could you tell us where the government is in implementing her recommendations?

The Hon. the Speaker: Thank you, minister, but your time has expired.

[Translation]

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. As you will recall from my previous exchange, one of the main reasons is because we have more places to fill. We have created 116 new judicial positions since 2017. We created 27 in the last budget, plus 2 prothonotary positions.

We are working hard, and the JACs are working hard. We replace and replenish the JACs every couple of years, as is provided for in the system. We do that diligently. I appoint judges at a pretty rigorous and even pace, and we do that after a consultation process. I think you will hear positive feedback from across Canada with respect to the judges we’ve appointed.

I work hard with the bar associations across Canada and with other legal groups to encourage people to apply and to encourage people to apply to the JACs when those positions become open. The results speak for themselves: Since 2016, 55% of our appointments have been women, 12% have been visible minorities, 6% identify as LGBTQ2+ and 4% are Indigenous. Of them, 32% are functionally bilingual and another 13% can read in both languages. That’s more than some in our house.

The system is working well. We’ve built trust in the system, not only with judges but also with members of the communities that we’re targeting.

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. That’s an important question, and one that has often been lost in the debate on Bill C-5.

We have undertaken the development of an Indigenous justice strategy. Again, this process has been launched, if you will, and much of it will be determined and shaped by Indigenous peoples across Canada. That process is moving. We’ve also launched the development of a Black justice strategy, in which we will be working with experts and community leadership groups across Canada in order to address the root causes that you have cited.

For Indigenous people, we have funded greater investments in Gladue reports on sentencing — the pre-sentencing reports — to get better coverage and better quality across Canada for Gladue reports. With respect to Black and racialized peoples, we have also begun the pilot project: Impact of Race and Culture Assessments, or IRCAs. These function like Gladue reports. It is an idea that originated in Nova Scotia but was seized upon by experts in Toronto, so those are the two jurisdictions where the pilot project is beginning.

In the meantime — until we elaborate upon those larger strategies with the collaboration and consultation of those communities in question — we are looking at other measures to try to help address the root causes of overincarceration and try to weed out systemic discrimination.

Hon. Paula Simons: Minister Lametti, in my home province of Alberta, the legal aid system is facing a crisis. Defence lawyers are refusing to take on new clients due to the concern that compensation for lawyers who work on these difficult cases has not kept pace with the cost of anything. This is causing backlogs throughout Alberta’s criminal justice system. Although legal aid is primarily funded by the province, there has been a tradition of federal backstop. Since Alberta is not alone in facing this crisis, has there been any consideration of doing something — more on a national scale — to ensure that the defendants and the accused are not losing the opportunity to have a full defence and to ensure that the criminal bar is receiving adequate compensation for what is often difficult work?

The Hon. the Speaker: I’m not sure there is a question there, Senator Duncan, but if you wish to respond to it, please do.

Senator Duncan: If I can offer a more fulsome response to you in writing, I’m happy to do that, but there is no reason why the other place could not study the very questions and report on the very questions. It’s a matter of getting the bill to them and having them address these issues as well.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

[Translation]

On Other Business, Senate Public Bills, Second Reading, Order No. 8:

Second reading of Bill S-226, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 and the Parliament of Canada Act (Speaker of the Senate).

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, we are now at the end of the Order Paper. May I suggest with leave that we suspend until 3 p.m. until the minister arrives and we continue then with Question Period? Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Senator Ringuette: The PBO did a study of the cost effectiveness of this bill and established that the federal program would be less costly by $76.6 million. That means that there will be $76.6 million less going to unemployed citizens on the Island over five years. That is a concern to me. Has your committee received or reviewed the PBO report?

Senator Duncan: I will try to answer that question, but it’s not my committee; it is Senator Black’s Agriculture and Forestry Committee that reviewed this bill and amendment. With regard to the PBO report, yes, I’m aware of it and I’m aware of the differences. The issue for Islanders has always been the fairness of the situation, and the difference in receiving benefits in one area versus another is absolutely of concern. However, I again note the support for changing to one zone.

Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: Welcome to the Senate, minister.

As part of the study of Bill C-5, which proposes to abolish 20 or so minor offences that have been identified as having disproportionate repercussions on Indigenous peoples, Black Canadians and marginalized Canadians, we heard from witnesses who suggested that we add an amendment for the other penalties for which minimum penalties would continue to apply. This means that there would be some built-in discretion given to the courts to hand down a penalty that could veer from the minimum penalty that would continue to apply in these cases. What do you think of this suggestion, minister?