Senator Plett: Maybe you want to join me.

Senator Plett: I’m going to do that, but not before I have visited as many zoos and aquariums as I think will help to educate people here about the zoos. Is Senator Dean’s time up?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): I do have questions, if Senator Dean would take a question or two.

Senator Plett: Are there others wanting to ask questions? I will finish.

Senator Dean, do you not think that it’s appropriate to find as much information as we possibly can before we take it to committee so we can all speak with as much knowledge as possible?

Senator Plett: Thank you, Senator Dean.

It struck me as a bit odd that Bill S-241 basically turns over the accreditation standards of Canadian zoos to an American accreditation body known as the Association of Zoos & Aquariums, or AZA.

There is currently a bill, Senator Dean, before the U.S. House of Representatives called the SWIMS Act. This bill would prohibit the breeding and the importation and exportation of orcas, beluga whales, false killer whales and pilot whales for the purpose of public display in the U.S. This is very similar to rules which Canadian zoos and aquariums are already required to abide by. The U.S. is not, however.

The AZA, Senator Dean, is opposing this bill in the U.S.

Senator Dean, can you tell me why you would want to turn over the accreditation standards of Canadian zoos to an American accreditation body that does not even support the existing Canadian standards?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, chiefs from four remote nations in northeastern Manitoba are calling for the federal and provincial governments to come together to build a local hospital. The Island Lake region chiefs have said their communities are in great need of proper infrastructure. These communities currently rely on nursing stations that can only provide limited treatments.

Chief Charles Knott said, “I think it’s time the government come visit our community to see firsthand what we go through every day.”

And Grand Chief Scott Harper said:

We have been negotiating with Canada for decades to fund our hospital and related facilities while our members keep dying from preventable deaths.

Minister, I know this is near and dear to your heart. You live close to these communities. The riding that you represent is not that far away. Have you visited these communities, minister? What are you doing to ensure that the people in these remote communities get the health care they deserve?

Senator Plett: One final question, maybe more of a comment than question: You mentioned in your speech that I was travelling around to different zoos and aquariums, and I indeed have done that. I have been in Kelowna at the kangaroo zoo, the Calgary Zoo, the Assiniboine Park Zoo, Parc Safari, Granby, here at Parc Omega.

Every speaker in this chamber has the absolute right and, in fact, the duty to say the things that they believe, and so I’m not wanting to take anything away, but it seems there is always something being alluded to that somebody is maybe delaying this legislation. Do you not think that the proper way as well would be, though, Senator Dean, for both the critic and the sponsor to do what I have been doing and visit all of these zoos before we go to committee so that we have all the information that we can have before we go to committee? Because, indeed, I think over the years it has been shown here that I indeed support most of — if not all — legislation going to committee. I believe that is where this chamber does its best work, at committee.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Let me add my welcome as well, minister.

Minister, part of your mandate as Minister of Indigenous Services is to:

Eliminate all remaining long-term drinking water advisories on reserve and make sure that long-term investments and resources are in place to prevent future ones . . . .

Back in 2015, the Prime Minister promised to put an end to these advisories by March of 2021. Yet Canada still has 34 long‑term drinking water advisories in 29 communities across the country.

Minister, why has your government failed to follow through on its promises to Indigenous peoples to end these advisories?

Senator Plett: Well, minister your government reaffirms its commitment to reconciliation, and I think we can both agree that ensuring clean tap water for every First Nation is a very crucial part of achieving just that. Yet your government’s verbal affirmations contradict its failure to meet the 2021 deadline. I appreciate what you are saying about your commitments, but these commitments don’t seem to take effect. Has your government now put a firm deadline on its commitment to end these drinking water advisories? If so, when is it? I’m sure that most chiefs and councils would be happy to assist you in getting this done.

I can also tell you that the government is confident that we have enough money to be able to complete this work, and that the money is there and accessible as we continue this work.

I believe — in fact, I am profoundly certain — that no community wants to be, as the honourable senator has said, under a boil water advisory. However, I will also reflect on the comments of leaders who have said that they do not want to prematurely lift boil water advisories — in fact, the chief in Neskantaga told me this just a couple of days ago — if they don’t have confidence that the system will continue to deliver water. It is because of the lack of confidence that their community members have.

This is an exercise in true self-determination, working with communities at the speed that they determine, which is why it makes it difficult to set another deadline.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, as a senator from Manitoba, let me thank you for what you have done in helping that women’s shelter. As you know, you and I were on a flight coming back from Winnipeg the day that you came back from there, so thank you.

Minister, in the spring of this year, the Parliamentary Budget Officer published a report which analyzed the government’s expenditures and results for Indigenous peoples through the creation of a second department. The report found the government was failing Indigenous peoples in a multitude of ways, noting a significant increase in expenditures, which is estimated to be several billions of dollars, and a “significant decline” in the results for Indigenous communities. The report concluded, “All organizations examined performed poorly in their ability to consistently maintain a target and date to achieve it . . . .”

Minister, how do you justify another report that your government is spending more and achieving less? In the six months since the report was tabled, what concrete steps have you taken to reroute the bulk of these expenditures from the Ottawa bureaucracy to Indigenous peoples directly?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, in June, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs warned that Indigenous Services Canada is on track to miss its 2030 target to close the infrastructure gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities. As I have outlined previously, it is clear that your government’s approach to simply throwing more money at a problem in the hopes that it will magically solve itself is not manifesting in results for Indigenous communities. While funding is necessary, in the absence of an actionable plan and no strategic implementation of these funds, nothing gets done.

Minister, will your department commit to reviewing its approach and to producing an actionable plan to close this gap?

Senator Plett: Well, of course, there are people saying that AZA meets a higher criterion. CAZA, Canada’s Accredited Zoos and Aquariums, are strongly denying that, and there is no evidence of any kind that AZA, in fact, does that. I want to continue, at least if for no other reason than getting this on the record, and I will speak to this in due course.

The AZA is vehemently opposing the SWIMS Act and is warning its members that if this legislation passes, it will soon be extended to include animals such as elephants, great apes, big cats and other species. They are urging their members to act now to communicate to Congress that this legislation establishes a dangerous precedent. This is AZA — the organization that is so much better than CAZA — warning their representatives in the U.S. that they do not want this to happen to elephants, big cats — something that Jane Goodall is coming into Canada to promote, but not the U.S.

Senator Dean, can you explain to me why we would turn over our accreditation standards that are not superior — that some people are telling you are superior but are not superior — to an organization that not only doesn’t support our own current standards but is actively opposing the requirements opposed by zoos by Bill S-241?