SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 301 - Apr/17/24

Mr. Pat Kelly (Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC)

Apr/17/24 7:17:39 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Mr. Speaker, the House of Commons passed Bill C-234. Normally, that is not a remarkable statement, but it bears repeating for comprehension. The House of Commons, made up of 338 elected members of Parliament to democratically legislate the laws of Canada, passed Bill C-234. That bill was a private member's bill to remove the carbon tax from farmers so that the thousands of dollars in unrebated carbon taxes that every farmer pays will no longer have to be built into the price of food. During a crisis of food affordability and food inflation, this is a common-sense way to do something immediate and concrete to help farmers produce affordable food for Canadians. The elected members of Parliament passed this bill over the objection of the governing Liberals. It was sent to the Senate where the same legislative process takes place, but during this process and at the clear and obvious behest of the Prime Minister and his government, the Senate gutted the bill by removing heating fuels for barns from the bill. They wanted to kill the bill altogether, but the government's extraordinary lobbying efforts succeeded in gutting the bill by ensuring that the carbon tax still applies to heating buildings like barns. This adds an enormous cost to the production of food, particularly the cost of eggs, chicken, pork and dairy. Axing the tax on food production would be a simple way to address inflation on food, which continues to rise even faster than the general rate of inflation, and along with the staggering cost of rent and mortgage payments, it puts the greatest pressure on the most vulnerable Canadians, people whose entire family budgets cannot cover the cost of food and shelter. I asked the government, after a desperate weekend of panic-stricken phone calls, which resulted in the Senate gutting the bill, if the Prime Minister would listen to Canadians and take the carbon tax off farmers, first nations and families who want to heat their homes. I mentioned first nations in my question because first nations are challenging the federal government's authority to impose the carbon tax on them. I mentioned farmers, who are price takers and who only have so much room to pass on higher costs without simply having to shut down production, and consumers who have to pay more for food. The response was an insipid mix of unrelated nonsense talking points. Since that time, the government House leader has pathetically and falsely tried to blame the Conservatives for the failure of Bill C-234 passing in the House again, ignoring the entire reason, or pretending not to know why, the bill is back here in this place. It is here because the government's senators are doing the bidding of the Prime Minister who appointed them and are gutting the bill. The Conservative deputy whip offered a motion to pass the bill by unanimous consent in its original form, but the Liberals refused to do that, so I will ask them again: Will they respect the will of this elected House? Will they recognize the roles that the Prime Minister and his ministers played in begging and bullying senators into rejecting a bill passed by the elected members of this chamber? Will they realize, as an overwhelming number of Canadians, including most provincial and territorial premiers have, that the carbon tax is punishing people who just want to eat, to heat and to transport themselves? Do they not see that when a basic input like energy is made more expensive, the output is reduced, which leads to higher prices? If they will not axe the carbon tax altogether, will they at least agree to axe the tax on farmers so that they can bring down the price of groceries?

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Mrs. Élisabeth Brière (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development and to the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health, Lib.)

Apr/17/24 7:21:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to explain to the hon. member for Calgary Rocky Ridge that putting a price on pollution is at the centre of our government's plan to fight climate change and to curb its devastating effects on our communities and our economy. The negative impacts of climate change are very real. The public will not soon forget the destructive force of last year's forest fires that scorched much of Canada and choked our communities, which were cloaked in thick smoke. It would be irresponsible of us to stand idly by instead of proposing solutions to deal with our rapidly changing climate. Standing still is unacceptable. We must act. Our efforts are not just to benefit our generation, they are to protect future generations of Canadians, our children and their children. Our government is taking necessary steps that will have effective, concrete impacts, and a vital part of this plan is Canada's price on pollution. Pollution has a cost. It has a cost for Canadians, for communities, for our health and for our economy. Applying a price on carbon pollution is widely recognized as one of the most efficient ways to reduce emissions and to fight the devastating effects of climate change. Our mechanism also ensures that the price on pollution stays affordable for Canadians. We sometimes hear, especially in the House, that putting a price on pollution costs Canadians too much. I can assure the House that this statement is completely false. In fact, in provinces where the federal pollution pricing system applies, people get back the lion's share of the revenues, and low-income earners benefit the most. This means that our system is helping with the cost of living for a majority of Canadian families while encouraging choices that will help Canada lower its emissions. Our price on pollution ensures that eight out of 10 households in these provinces are receiving more money back through quarterly Canada carbon rebate payments than they pay. Thanks to our government's pollution price mechanism, a family of four living in one of these provinces can receive up to $1,800. As people can see, with our plan, we are not only fighting climate change, but we are also returning money to Canadians. The government does not keep any direct proceeds from federal pollution pricing. Instead, the government returns the money collected to households, small and medium-sized businesses, farmers and indigenous governments. International experts agree that our pollution pricing mechanism is an effective way to fight climate change. With this approach, we are sending a clear message: Pollution has a price. Putting a price on carbon pollution encourages reduction across the economy while giving households and businesses the flexibility to decide when and how to make changes. To achieve this, we need to maintain the price signal that, over the long term, is necessary for carbon pricing to work and bring emissions down. Removing pollution pricing, as the opposition has called for, would eliminate its powerful incentive to encourage people and businesses to change their behaviours and pollute less.

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Mr. Pat Kelly

Apr/17/24 7:25:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the response is that the Liberals will continue to tax farmers, to apply an input tax on farmers to increase their costs, which inflates and increases the cost of food. They will give some rebates to some households, which the Parliamentary Budget Officer has clearly stated do not cover the cost of the carbon tax to those households, particularly when we include all the higher costs people incur. It is not just the carbon tax they see on their heating bill and at the pump but also the general inflation of all the goods that it is applied to. The farmer does not get the rebate to cover these costs. They are either going to cut production, which will raise the price of food, or pass the cost on and make the food more expensive. The Liberals should just axe the tax. If they cannot do it for everything, they can at least do it for farmers.

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Mrs. Élisabeth Brière

Apr/17/24 7:26:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, our government knows that ensuring sustainability for future generations is paramount, and that is why we are taking action. We are protecting people from the dangers and costs of climate change and ensuring that Canada continues to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions. Not only does our price on pollution help combat climate change, but it also directly gives more money back to many Canadian families at a time when so many need it most.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Apr/17/24 7:27:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party platform in 2021 promised that the re-elected Liberal government would implement the Canada disability benefit and that “this new benefit will reduce poverty among persons with disabilities in the same manner as the Guaranteed Income Supplement and the Canada Child Benefit.” The Liberals were, of course, elected that year. In the time since, thanks to consistent pressure from the disability community to keep that promise, the government slowly put forward a bill that needed significant improvements every step of the way, including ones that my team and I secured, such as requiring an application process that is without barriers and indexing the benefit to inflation. The government then told those in the disability community that it was consulting with them, including inviting people from across the country to spend significant time completing a lengthy survey. Finally, yesterday, we got the government's proposal for the Canada disability benefit in budget 2024, and it was nothing that folks with disabilities were calling for. The maximum amount of $200 a month is far too little to actually reduce poverty levels among folks with disabilities. They have limited eligibility to those already receiving the incredibly burdensome application process for the disability tax credit, in contravention of the amendment I mentioned earlier that called for it to be barrier-free, and it will not even start until July 2025. The total cost is just over $1 billion a year. The Liberals promised the Canada disability benefit would reduce poverty in the same way that two other programs did. The guaranteed income supplement is about 15 times as much and pays out a maximum of just over $1,000 a month, and the Canada child benefit is 24 times as much annually and pays out a maximum of just over $600 a month. The Canada disability benefit, as proposed, does little to help the disability community and seems to be much more about convincing non-disabled Canadians that the government is helping people with disabilities than about doing what it said it intended to do. As a result, folks with disabilities are deeply disappointed, and that is putting it kindly. Here is a sampling of reactions from the past 24 hours that I would like to read into the record. Some of the language is quite raw, but it reflects the pain that some folks are feeling. Laura says, “I have never been so disappointed in something in my entire life.” Mitchell said, “This is the ultimate failure. What an atrocity. No fairness here”. Cody said, “$2400/year? That's not just a joke, but an outright slap in the face to the disability community. You should be ashamed of yourself.” Kate said, “This budget announcement of adding a max of 200 more a month to a select few disabled people is The Most Liberal Party thing I've ever seen”. Illandria said, “So much for 'Lifting Disabled People Out Of Poverty In Canada'...They REALLY put the 'NOTHING' in NOTHING WITHOUT US”. There are leading organizations that have been advocating for the benefit. Krista Carr from Inclusion Canada said, “Our disappointment cannot be overstated.... This benefit was supposed to lift persons with disabilities out of poverty, not merely make them marginally less poor than they already are.” Samuel Ragot from La Société québécoise de la déficience intellectuelle said, “this is worse than my worst case scenario. Not only is it not enough, using the DTC will gatekeep the benefit from SOOOO many people. My heart goes to the people living in poverty who will have to keep fighting everyday to survive.” Lastly, Michelle Hewitt from Disability Without Poverty said, “To say we are disappointed is an understatement. Yesterday's announcement on the CDB is woefully inadequate.” Again, it looks to me like the government is not even trying to do right by people with disabilities. Will the parliamentary secretary admit that the Canada disability benefit, as proposed yesterday, is a performative measure intended to make non-disabled Canadians think the government is doing something of substance for the disability community when it is clearly not?

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Ms. Iqra Khalid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue, Lib.)

Apr/17/24 7:31:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his brilliant advocacy and for his question on behalf of persons with disabilities. The member knows, as does everyone in this place, that protecting and helping the most vulnerable in our society is a fundamental Canadian principle, and it is a fundamental principle of our government. When it comes to people with disabilities, we have invested more money in the last eight years than ever before. I take the point: Is it enough? Absolutely not. Do we need to do more? Absolutely we do, but we have made progress. In comparison, the previous Conservative government promised and failed to deliver a national disability act. Our Liberal government made the Accessible Canada Act a reality, but there is still a lot more to do. That said, we are moving as quickly as possible on the Canada disability benefit. Of course, we understand that the disability community is anxious to see extra dollars in their bank accounts, but we must get it right to make the delivery of the benefit as smooth, as targeted and as effective as possible. Budget 2024 proposes funding of $6.1 billion over six years, beginning in this fiscal year, 2024-25, and $1.4 billion per year ongoing, for the first-ever federal Canada disability benefit. This represents an important next step in the journey for this. I cannot talk about the journey of the Canada disability benefit without talking about the years of relentless advocacy from the community. I want to thank all of those who have been relentless in their advocacy as they championed the needs and priorities of persons with disabilities. I encourage them to continue to engage with our government as we move forward in the next chapter. The lived experiences of persons with disabilities has been a key part of the consultation process. In the true spirit of “nothing without us”, we engaged with persons with disabilities, stakeholders and all Canadians on key issues. In the coming months, once we have published the draft regulations in part I of the Canada Gazette, Canadians will again be invited to provide feedback. As the hon. member knows, the act requires that regulations be in place by June 2025, with money flowing into bank accounts by July 2025. Let me assure all members in the House and all Canadians that we are on track to meet this timeline. This is the first federal government step-up in support of persons with disabilities by creating a new and specific benefit just for them. The budget 2024 announcement unlocks the ability to proceed with the extensive and intense behind-the-scenes work needed to deliver the CDB. We need the time not just to be focused on the developing regulations, but to build the internal infrastructure and support systems necessary to deliver the program and to allow the provinces and territories to adjust their policies to ensure that there are no unintended clawbacks. This is a crucial time as we carefully balance the need to strengthen our social security net while making sure government spending is able to help with the everyday costs of living. We are committed to creating a better, fairer country for generations to come, but, as I said, there is more work to do. It is the next stop in the journey of building a barrier-free Canada. I thank the member for Kitchener Centre for his ongoing excellent advocacy on this.

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Mr. Mike Morrice

Apr/17/24 7:35:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have had this conversation dozens of times in the House over the last three years. I have heard, time and again, about a need for time for the regulations, negotiations with provinces and territories, “nothing without us” and that they need to do more. The difference now is that, with this budget, their cards are on the table. There was a dollar amount in that budget, and that dollar amount was $200 a month. The government set the expectation that this benefit was meant to lift people out of poverty. The Liberals find money for the Trans Mountain pipeline; they find $35 billion for that. They send $18 billion to oil and gas companies that are already making tens of billions of dollars in record-breaking profits. However, when it came time to step up and demonstrate that there was well-placed trust from the disability community, the community was let down. Are the parliamentary secretary and others going to put pressure on the government to expand what was in the budget and do better?

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Ms. Iqra Khalid

Apr/17/24 7:36:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate the member's advocacy. I have a nephew who has severe disabilities. Right now, in his first five years of life, is when he needs the most support to be able to grow and live a functioning life. I completely understand the need to ensure that the disability community has the support it needs so it can continue to flourish and thrive in a community that is barrier-free. During the past eight years, we have invested unprecedented amounts of money to further the inclusion and the financial stability of persons with disabilities. The Canada disability benefit represents the largest single item in budget 2024, of over $6 billion. This is not insignificant. This is the first time in Canada that there will be a federal benefit designed specifically to meet the needs of people with disabilities. Like all progressive programs that we have delivered, it is built to be enhanced and expanded. I look forward to working with the member and the disability community to ensure that we are continuing to advocate for a barrier-free community for them.

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Mr. Jeremy Patzer (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, CPC)

Apr/17/24 7:37:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, before I really dive into the substance of my question here today, I want to give a quick shout-out to the U13 boys' hockey league champions from the Southwest Saskatchewan Hockey League. I was fortunate enough to coach my son's hockey team this year. The story starts like this: I was in a classroom in Mossbank back in September, talking to the students there. It turned out that half of the kids I talked to were on the hockey team that won our league, so I congratulate the Wood River Flyers on winning the Southwest Saskatchewan Hockey League. I give a big shout-out to Devin Smith, Jesse Packet, Kipton Tremblay, Grayson Eisen, Ashton Clermont, Lawson Layman, Ryder Tallon, Alex Jolly, Griffin DeWulf, Jon Jennett, Cole Masse, Austin Pritchard, Carson Crooks, Kyle Batty, Turner Tallon, Grady Crooks and, of course, their head coach, Dustin DeWulf. A big congratulations to them on a great year and a job well done. Back in December, I had the opportunity to ask the government about the carbon tax. This is a topic that is not going away anytime soon. When I talk to people back home, particularly at this time of year, April, the farmers are itching to get going in the fields. They see the costs and the effects of the carbon tax right up front, because farmers back home are price-takers. They do not get to pass costs on to anybody, at least not back home. There are other farmers in greenhouses who grow produce and are able to pass on some of those costs; that is a whole other issue. I am going to focus more on the grain farmers that I have back home today. They have to pay the carbon tax on their trucking, as they are still waiting for the grain drying bill to pass. There are a lot of things they still have to pay it on. If they want to get fertilizer shipped out to their farm, they have to pay the carbon tax on that. They have to absorb that price. They cannot pass that cost on to anybody else, so they are paying for it. They also do not get to sell their crop to anybody. There is a global price that is set on their crop. They have to buy their machinery, their crops and their inputs, then grow the crops and harvest them. Therefore, they are price-takers. There are some exemptions for on-farm usage, but that does not cover the cost associated with many other activities. That is what we are trying to get the attention of the government for. However, there is another element to the carbon tax that the government continues not to address. That is the issue of municipalities and towns. I gave the example previously of the Town of Shaunavon, for instance, which is going to have an 8% or 9% property tax increase for it to cover the costs of the carbon tax alone. The City of Swift Current will have an increase of multiple percentage points on property taxes to cover the carbon tax. The Town of Kindersley has a fairly new hockey rink, built in the last 10 years. It just recently built a brand new aquatic centre. To run just those two facilities, it is paying $12,000 a month in carbon tax. The costs are exorbitant. That cost goes directly back to the ratepayers, so the same ratepayers who are paying the carbon tax on their gas, groceries and home heating are also paying it on the increases in their property tax; they have to pay the costs that the Town of Kindersley has to pay on these buildings. There is no rebate that covers that. This is yet another layer to the carbon tax that people are getting gouged on, and the government continues to refuse to do anything about it.

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Mrs. Élisabeth Brière (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development and to the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health, Lib.)

Apr/17/24 7:41:30 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-234

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have been through a lot in the past five years, and many are struggling with the cost of living. We have heard numerous calls to scale back the carbon pricing system in response, but carbon pricing is not the problem. It is designed to help families through the Canada carbon rebate, which will help lower- and middle-income households most of all. That is why a pause on carbon pricing simply will not help families keep life affordable. As the Governor of the Bank of Canada explained, the price on carbon contributes only 0.15 percentage points to inflation per year, a tiny portion of the high inflation we have been experiencing. Economists estimate that carbon pricing increased the cost of food by 0.33%. Once again, that is a small portion of what we have all been dealing with in recent months. The main reason for that is that farmers are already exempt from the carbon tax for most of their activities. Bill C‑234 is simply not going to change things for households that are dealing with higher grocery prices, and it is false to suggest that it would. It stands to reason that carbon pricing is not causing inflation. Inflation is something that is happening all over the world, including in many countries that do not have a carbon tax. The real causes are events like the disruptions caused by the COVID-19 crisis and Russia's war in Ukraine driving energy prices up. Canada's price on pollution is designed to protect Canadians from any price increases it does cause. All direct proceeds from pricing carbon pollution under the federal system are returned to the jurisdiction in which they were collected. More than 90% of fuel charge proceeds are returned directly to individuals and households through the Canada carbon rebate. They are distributed via cheque or direct bank deposit every three months, and eight out of 10 families in provinces where the federal system applies receive more money back than they pay. We cannot deny the devastating effects of climate change. Doing nothing is not an option. We would just be wasting time in the global race to find carbon-neutral solutions. The effects of climate change cost Canadian households $720 a year, and this figure will rise to $2,000 a year by 2050. Climate change also costs lives and impacts the physical and mental health of millions. We need to listen to youth, our communities and our businesses. Choosing the easy path now will force us all to take a harder path later, and that is not an option.

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Mr. Jeremy Patzer

Apr/17/24 7:44:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, just because someone cannot see the cost of the carbon tax on their grocery bill does not mean it is not driving up that cost. We know that it is driving up that cost. Anyone who has gone to the grocery store knows that the prices of groceries are going up, because when we tax the trucker who brings the food from the farm to the terminal, when we tax the truck that takes it from production to the grocery store, and when we tax the grocery store, we are taxing the food and we are driving up the cost for the consumer who buys the food. We know that through the Canada Gazette and through the government's regulations, it is expressly stated on carbon pricing and many other government initiatives that the people most likely to experience the dramatic effects are single mothers and seniors living on a fixed income. We have seen that first-hand. We have experienced that first-hand. That is why we are seeing issues with people being able to pay their mortgages, people being able to pay their bills and people being able to buy food and feed their families.

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Mrs. Élisabeth Brière

Apr/17/24 7:45:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, carbon pricing is one of the simplest and most effective ways to reduce pollution, since it sends a signal across the economy. It gives every household and business an incentive to find ways to reduce pollution, but it leaves them the flexibility to decide when and how to take action. That is why pollution pricing alone helps achieve one-third of the greenhouse gas emissions reductions that we need in order to do our part and mitigate the worst effects of climate change. It is a key pillar of any serious climate plan. Modelling by Environment and Climate Change Canada shows that Canada's emissions in 2021 would have been 18 metric tonnes higher without carbon pricing, which had already been implemented for two years.

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The Deputy Speaker

Apr/17/24 7:46:48 p.m.
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The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted, and accordingly the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1). (The House adjourned at 7:47 p.m.)

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