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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 301

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
April 17, 2024 02:00PM
Context: House Hansard - 301 - Apr/17/24
Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:53:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Mr. Firth and Mr. Anthony met at Veritaaq, which was accused of colluding on contracts in 2009 while Mr. Firth was working there. The judge who looked into the matter had ordered that all employees receive anti-collusion training. Did Mr. Firth learn anything from that training?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in 2009, at Veritaaq, I was a recruiter. I was not involved in the sales cycle whatsoever, so I do not think I had training in 2009.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is too bad, because even a recruiter is considered a company employee. I think that what we are seeing today is that there is a big problem when it comes to procurement and that there is a certain loss of control when it comes to the gifts that are being accepted by public servants. We saw proof of that today. I think that the CBSA, which was one of the main government bodies that awarded contracts to GC Strategies, must be put under third-party management because Quebeckers and Canadians need to recover the money that was wasted on this company and others.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know that the clock can be stopped. Can I have the question again, please? It was not coming through on my headphones very well.
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The Speaker
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:57 p.m.
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I would ask the hon. member for Terrebonne to repeat her comments.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:55:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, does he agree that any public servants that did not follow internal procedures should lose their jobs and that if this is a widespread problem within the CBSA, then that agency should be put under third-party management?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:55:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe that if any wrongdoing is found, there should be repercussions.
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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)
  • Apr/17/24 4:55:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think Canadians across the country and members of Parliament are disappointed, not just in the dramatic failure of the procurement system in our country to address the real issues of value for money, but in that this sheds light on what has been a terrible instance of reporting missing information and lost invoicing. We do not even know the total amount to date. This is a serious and grave matter facing our country, one that stems back decades now. We heard testimony at the public accounts committee, of which I am a member, several times. Other contractors spoke to us about the tremendous vulnerability that exists in Canada's procurement system and also exists in the lack of investment in our public sector. According to The Globe and Mail, for instance, since 2017, GC Strategies has received $46 million in federal funding. The flow of tax dollars to GC Strategies has increased steadily each year, growing from $32.6 million in the 2016-17 fiscal year to $80.3 million in the 2021-22 fiscal year. According to the Auditor General, GC Strategies' ArriveCAN app cost Canadians almost $60 million. The total is still undetermined due to the lack of documentation and of a paper trail, a serious and grave error in and of itself. On top of that, we have noticed that this vulnerability of our public service and procurement process has created a system in which insiders are able to profit in extreme amounts because of a system that does not have the proper accountability and does not have the proper follow through, albeit, in this particular instance, that there is a lack of proper procurement. Canadians are rightly disappointed. Not only that, but they are angry at the very real fact that they wake up every single day, go to work, pay their taxes and do everything right, and then are told that the tax dollars they have worked so hard for have not gone to close in the gaps in social or economic outcomes, or for material benefits for Canadians, but have been going towards a dramatic outsourcing of jobs that Canadians in our public service could do. I recognize that not all IT services, of course, can be dealt with here at the House of Commons or in our public service, but a great deal of them could. When did Mr. Firth first start doing contracts and business with the Government of Canada?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:58:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my first contract would have been in 2011.
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Mr. Blake Desjarlais
  • Apr/17/24 4:58:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what are the names of Mr. Firth's various companies that have contracted or subcontracted with the Government of Canada since that time?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:58:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I probably cannot remember them all, but I will do the best I can. Sorry, can I get a qualification for that question, please?
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The Speaker
  • Apr/17/24 4:59:05 p.m.
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I am not certain what you are asking me, Mr. Firth.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:59:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I just want to ask for a qualification. Should I be speaking about my companies or the companies that we have subcontracted work through?
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Mr. Blake Desjarlais
  • Apr/17/24 4:59:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am inquiring as to the names of the companies that he has been the owner or co-owner of since 2011, while he has been doing business with the Government of Canada.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:59:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the only IT staffing firm I have had is GC Strategies, as an owner. We were not part of Coredal.
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Mr. Blake Desjarlais
  • Apr/17/24 4:59:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, does Mr. Firth believe that the work his company, GC Strategies, has done in relation to ArriveCAN was good money for Canadians' dollars?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 5:00:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe that the team we put forward, again, as attested to by AWS, Microsoft and BDO, were the only ones at that point that had the capacity to build this application, so I would say yes.
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Mr. Blake Desjarlais
  • Apr/17/24 5:00:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Mr. Firth, in the past, has spoken about his worries or concerns, or even at times perceived rejection, of the Auditor General's report, in particular to this fact as well in regard to value for money. What does Mr. Firth have to say in relation to the Auditor General's report on value for money?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 5:00:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am not questioning the report. Again, it is the inputs that were given to the report. There is a big delta between the $19.1 million the AG's report claimed that we used to build the application versus the $11 million, but because of the financial system and the tagging for other projects associated, because these contracts were pandemic response contracts and were not specific to the ArriveCAN app, I can understand why there is the discrepancy.
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Mr. Blake Desjarlais
  • Apr/17/24 5:01:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Canadians know that when our public service does the job, they are doing it knowing the most important piece to that is the outcome for Canadians and making sure that the service is truly up to the standard that Canadians expect. When we outsource that work, when we take that job away from the public sector and when we take it away from those who work for the good of our country, it comes with a price. It comes with commission, and it comes with profit by the private sector in this particular instance. How much money did Mr. Firth take home from these contracts?
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