SoVote

Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 301

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
April 17, 2024 02:00PM
Context: House Hansard - 301 - Apr/17/24
Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:48:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the reality is that this is common practice for people with existing contracts. They get subcontractors to come through their company, because typically the time to procure directly, even if one is one of the 635 vendors who could do work with the government, takes too long. Again, I was not aware of the file and what the urgency was and the deliverables, but I did know timelines were very tight. My assumption, and again this is being speculative, was that they were leveraging the contract I had, because it needed to be done quickly.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:49:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what we heard in committee is that the public servants did everything they could to make sure the contracts were awarded quickly. That is why many contracts were awarded non-competitively. Once again, we are hearing contradictory testimony. According to Mr. Firth, why did the public servant agree to simply pick up the phone and call KPMG to tell them that there would be an intermediary and that that intermediary would be paid $84,000 to do absolutely nothing? Why does he think the public servant did that?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:49:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, again, not being elusive, I cannot comment on why somebody picked up the phone in a government organization and made a call.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:49:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, does Mr. Firth have a number in mind for the many gifts in money and in kind that he offered the federal public servants?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:49:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that number is zero.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:50:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, to summarize, Mr. Firth never paid for a coffee, never paid for a restaurant meal, never paid for a golf tournament and never paid for a whisky tasting, despite all the testimony we heard?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:50:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have admitted I would go out and I would invite government employees to lunches or to coffee, understanding that if they were to show up, they had already gone through their regular chain of command and already asked permission to accept that.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:50:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, here is a good example of a contradiction. We went from zero to yes, there were coffees, restaurant meals, golf tournaments, whisky tastings and on and on, with dozens of federal public servants. I will repeat the same question. How much, in money or in kind, was given to the federal public servants?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:51:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the first question was specific to what was given to receive contracts by government employees. That is why I said it was zero. Once the contracts had been awarded through regular procurement practices, they became a client, and we would have frequent meetings to check on the health of the project, whether that was over lunch or whether that was during coffee.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:51:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, why do that if not to obtain federal government contracts?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:51:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am looking for a health check on how my resources are performing and whether, also, I need to replace any if they are not.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:51:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, had he previously identified those with whom he was having coffee and tasting whiskey as people who could grant him contracts, or were they simply people he met on the street?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:52:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, they were clients who we engaged with once we had won the contracts.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:52:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is clearly providing a service paid in kind to obtain a contract. It is the very definition of it. Let us go on to the next question. Mr. Firth justified his rate of $2,600 per hour by saying that he did not just work 9 to 5. Does he think that Canadians and Quebeckers got their money's worth with the $2,600 per hour they paid for Mr. Firth's so-called huge number of hours?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:52:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the hours that we were quoting were specific to ArriveCAN. We had 22 other departments and other contracts we were working on at that time. I would like to also remind everyone that we were picked. We did not solicit. We provided services; over 50 resources were in there and delivered on 170 releases on the application.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:53:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Mr. Firth and Mr. Anthony met at Veritaaq, which was accused of colluding on contracts in 2009 while Mr. Firth was working there. The judge who looked into the matter had ordered that all employees receive anti-collusion training. Did Mr. Firth learn anything from that training?
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in 2009, at Veritaaq, I was a recruiter. I was not involved in the sales cycle whatsoever, so I do not think I had training in 2009.
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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is too bad, because even a recruiter is considered a company employee. I think that what we are seeing today is that there is a big problem when it comes to procurement and that there is a certain loss of control when it comes to the gifts that are being accepted by public servants. We saw proof of that today. I think that the CBSA, which was one of the main government bodies that awarded contracts to GC Strategies, must be put under third-party management because Quebeckers and Canadians need to recover the money that was wasted on this company and others.
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Mr. Kristian Firth
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know that the clock can be stopped. Can I have the question again, please? It was not coming through on my headphones very well.
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The Speaker
  • Apr/17/24 4:54:57 p.m.
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I would ask the hon. member for Terrebonne to repeat her comments.
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