SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 292 - Mar/20/24

Mar/20/24 9:02:01 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we are supporting the government for all of the military aid that has been provided to this point in time. I also appreciate the fact that every loan done under the Harper government that was offered to Ukraine to help with its economy, its government and the military has already been repaid. Ukraine has been honouring the loans that were provided from Canada and other nations. However, the member is right: There have been a lot of announcements, and one is not going to win a war on paper; one actually needs to deliver. All we have to do is look at 14 months ago. The Government of Canada announced, with great fanfare, that we were going to send over a NASAMS air defence system. That still has not been ordered. As for the $406 million, who knows where it is? The NASAMS is still either in the United States or not even built yet. There are a lot of questions around where the contract is. Ukraine needs that air defence system today. It needed it when it was first announced. It does not need it 14 months from now. We also know that when President Zelenskyy was here, the government made a bunch of fanfare about sending over 50 new light armoured vehicles. I can say that the contract with either GDLS or Armatec in London has not been signed. We do not know that they are actually going to purchase these. This was, again, announced six months ago, and we have not even put a pen to a contract to allow our own Canadian industry to build the light armoured vehicles. As I mentioned, Ukraine was burning through over 8,000 rounds of howitzer artillery shells on a daily basis. Canada has not even increased our production here, for our 155-millimetre shells built in Montreal, one iota. We are still building, today, 3,000 a month. That does not give Ukraine enough for even half a day. Canada and our allies need to step up, to really ramp up production. We have to get on a war footing and we have to make sure we support our Canadian defence industry so it can deliver the equipment, weapons and munitions needed by the Ukrainian military to defend its sovereign territory. Finally, as we have been calling for, we have a lot of equipment that is being disposed of. We—

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The Assistant Deputy Chair

Mar/20/24 9:04:53 p.m.
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I cannot give the hon. member another speech within the questions and answers. The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Mar/20/24 9:05:02 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I do not question the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman on his loyalty to Ukraine. I think that is well documented. Certainly the member for Drummond is absolutely right in this regard. I do not question the loyalty and the support that his former leader, Erin O'Toole, had for Ukraine. I do question his current leader's support for Ukraine. He has denounced Ukraine as being a faraway foreign land. He pushed his caucus to vote against the Ukraine trade deal. I know that the member is trying to defend his leader, and that is normal. Quite frankly, however, the idea that a trade deal that gives Ukrainians the decision whether or not to put a price on pollution is certainly not something the Conservatives could have voted against. His leader has not, in any way, confirmed that the strategic security partnership would be adequately funded. It is true that Conservatives, last December, put Operation Unifier on the chopping block. A deliberate motion was moved to cut funding to Operation Unifier, and all Conservatives voted for it. If the intent was to show opposition to the government, the Conservatives had the ability to not move that motion and to move other motions. They chose to move the motion to cut Operation Unifier. I think what concerns me the most is Tucker Carlson and Danielle Smith. The Conservative leader has not denounced that appearance with the Putin apologist, and my simple question is, “Why?”

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Mr. James Bezan

Mar/20/24 9:06:51 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to remind the NDP House leader that, before 2019, before being part of the Liberal-NDP coalition, he voted against Operation Unifier in every main estimate and every supplementary estimate, in every budget from 2014 to 2019. He has no right to criticize anyone over here who has lost confidence in the government. The NDP is propping up the costly and corrupt Liberals. I would just say this as well: Our leader has been very vocal in his support for Ukraine. He has actually called on the government to send the 83,000 CRV7 rockets to Ukraine today. The Ukrainians have asked for them. All the inspections have been done. Instead of allowing them to sit there and collect dust or cost us millions of dollars to dispose of them, let us hand them off to the Ukrainian armed forces so that they could dispose of them in a way that protects their country. I would suggest that the member for New Westminster—Burnaby get onside with the leader of the Conservative Party so that we could actually get the job done.

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski (Thunder Bay—Rainy River, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 9:08:11 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with the Minister of International Trade. I think it is really unfortunate that I am here yet again to talk about Ukraine and the war and using those two words in the same sentence. I wish, when I thought about Ukraine, my thoughts would be limited to growing up with my baba in Fort William. We would sit on the front steps of her corner store. She would bribe me with Coca-Cola and chips to get me to sit and listen to her Ukrainian hymns and stories about the old country. I wish my thoughts of Ukraine were limited to thinking about my family in Odessa, which I visited, and visiting the village of my baba, which was near Horodenka in Chernivtsi, or the village of my dido, which was near Kamyanets-Podilskyy. Instead, here we are talking yet again about the war, an unprovoked attack by the Russian state, led by Vladimir Putin, in complete and utter disregard for the most fundamental principles of international law. In starting this war, Putin has committed what is known in international law as the crime of aggression, which in the words of the Nuremberg judgment is “the supreme international crime...[as]...it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole”, the evil being all other international war crimes. I would love to talk more about how the invasion has affected the international legal order, which grew out of the horrors of the Second World War, and how the resulting international trade rules have brought prosperity to millions of poor people around the world. However, time is limited, there is a war on, so let me talk about some of the specifics and highlights of the agreement. In 2024, Canada will provide $3.02 billion in macroeconomic and military support to Ukraine. The agreement states: In the event of renewed Russian aggression or attacks against Ukraine following the cessation of current hostilities, and at the request of either of the Participants, the Participants will consult within twenty-four...hours to determine measures needed to counter or deter the aggression. There is a section of the agreement that commits both countries to establish closer defence industrial partnerships. In that, there is an explicit recognition of the acute need for ammunition in Ukraine. There is talk of the need for Canada to continue to support demining. As a doctor who has operated on land mine injuries, that is really important to me. Canada, in this agreement, commits to supporting Ukraine in making sure it holds Russia to account for war crimes, including in front of the International Criminal Court. Lastly, the agreement commits Canada to working with other countries to establish a compensation mechanism whereby Russia would pay for the damages done to Ukraine. I read a quote earlier about how starting a war is the supreme international crime. That quote came from the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. There were eight judges on the tribunal; two of them were Soviet judges. As we all know, both Russia and Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union. It is ironic that Russia not only committed the supreme international crime but also committed it against its own brothers and sisters in Ukraine. It is also ironic that two of the judges on that tribunal were American. The United States is the historic champion of the international legal order. However, right now, we are seeing the United States struggle in order to continue to finance military assistance for Ukraine; much assistance has been absolutely crucial in preventing a Russian victory. Crass political gamesmanship and unbridled self-interest seem to have guided many American Republican congressmen to try to block the Biden administration's attempt to provide a further $60 billion in security assistance for Ukraine. This is an affront to the memories of those esteemed American jurists who sat at the Nuremberg trials and to the millions of people who fought and died on the side of the allied nations, both to fight the Nazis and to create the present international legal order. Thankfully, we know that the war in Ukraine will eventually come to an end. Ukrainians will then be able to return to what they do best, which is to grow cucumbers, tomatoes, sunflowers and dill and, occasionally, to be able to sit down and calmly enjoy a nice glass of horilka. Unfortunately, that day will not come soon enough. Slava Ukraini.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Mar/20/24 9:13:07 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the member opposite, my colleague on the health committee, for sharing some of his thoughts on this important co-operation agreement, as well as some of his history of being Ukrainian and growing up with his baba and dido. Likewise, I grew up in a Ukrainian family; there is a very special bond that we have. This issue is very troubling. The member talked a bit about the medical co-operation in this agreement. Could he provide a bit more on why it is so important that Canada respond in this way and what more we can do to ensure that we have a strong Ukraine and a strong Canada?

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski

Mar/20/24 9:14:02 p.m.
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Madam Chair, to tell the truth, I went through the whole agreement, but I did not see anything on medical assistance. However, that is exceedingly important. In fact, I know that Canadian surgeons, as part of teams with American surgeons specializing in plastic surgery, orthopaedic surgery and neurosurgery, have gone to Ukraine to assist people who have been injured in the war. They try, as much as possible, to make them as close as they can to what they were before their injuries. Therefore, I think Canada has really contributed a lot in that respect, and, certainly, continuing to do so is important. However, I will stress that it is far better to prevent injuries and death than having to send surgeons and medical teams to try to undo what war has done.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Mar/20/24 9:15:04 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we are all saddened by the news that Ukrainian children are trying to learn, struggling in this conflict, in bomb shelters. In places like Kharkiv, they have to go hundreds of metres underground to actually get the schooling that has been so cruelly interrupted by this massive invasion by the Russian dictatorship. I think it is appalling to all Canadians to see a dictatorship that sees human beings simply as objects and tries to bulldoze over the Ukrainian people in order to take Ukraine, destroy its democracy and occupy the entire country. Sadly, in the United States, the Republicans, the far right elements, are refusing to provide aid to Ukraine. To what extent does my colleague think Canada needs to step up additionally, given that the conservative Republicans have absolutely refused to support Ukraine and are siding with the Russian dictatorship? What does Canada need to do now to reinforce the supports for Ukraine, its democracy and its people?

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Mr. Marcus Powlowski

Mar/20/24 9:16:40 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to thank the member for his compassion for the Ukrainian people. As to what Canada has to do at the moment, certainly, it has to hope for a good result in the upcoming election in the U.S. We certainly fear what is going to happen should Trump be re-elected. What the member said earlier about the effects on children was very apropos for me, because the harm caused by this invasion will go on for years. The effect on the education of children is something that we are going to feel for years. The fact that the Republicans are blocking this is absolutely terrible in my mind. The reality is, perhaps, that we in the western world, parts of NATO that are not the United States, need to contemplate the possibility that we will have to do far more on our own. At some point in the future, should Trump be elected, we may need to do things without the support of America. I certainly hope that Canada would be willing to make the commitment that is needed to continue support of Ukraine against Russia with or without the United States. However, I would certainly like to see the United States continue its historical role in promoting and supporting the international legal order.

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Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Export Promotion, International Trade and Economic Development, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 9:18:12 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-57

Madam Chair, it is an honour to take part in tonight's debate on the relationship between Canada and Ukraine. Before I continue with my speech, I want to take a moment to recognize in the chamber former prime minister Brian Mulroney and to extend my condolences to his family and to all those who knew him. Prime Minister Mulroney was, of course, a steadfast supporter of Ukraine, and his leadership continues to positively impact the Canada-Ukraine relationship today. When Prime Minister Mulroney was prime minister in 1991, Canada became the first western country to recognize Ukraine's independence. As colleagues may know, Bill C-57 received royal assent yesterday, leading us one step closer to bringing into force the modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. This modernized trade agreement represents a historic milestone for the Canada-Ukraine commercial relationship and for Ukraine's economic security, which I will be focusing my remarks on tonight. The Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, also known as CUFTA, is just one of the tools Canada is using to support our ally Ukraine, which continues to face the violent consequences of Russia's illegal and unjustified invasion. Indeed, since the beginning of the conflict in 2022, Canada has committed over $13.3 billion in multi-faceted support covering military, financial, humanitarian, development, security and cultural assistance for Ukraine. The modernized free trade agreement is another form of support that will provide the framework for bilateral trade and investment. It will strengthen the foundation on which Canadian and Ukrainian businesses can work together, not only now but also during Ukraine's recovery and economic reconstruction over years to come, when it will win this war against Russia's illegal invasion. Furthermore, our bilateral relations are strengthened through our warm people-to-people ties that are rooted in Ukrainian Canadians in our country. They represent roughly 1.3 million people and have shared values. Many of these values are reflected in CUFTA. In January of this year, I had the opportunity to spend some time across western and central Canada, from Alberta to Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and of course here in Ontario. I have spoken with many Ukrainian Canadians, businesses and stakeholders about what was before our Parliament, which was the modernized CUFTA. There was a lot of interest from Ukrainian Canadians, certainly from the Canadian private sector, to support Ukraine as it continues to keep not only its economy going, but also its reconstruction activities. The modernized CUFTA is going to do just that. Canadian companies would not only trade in goods, and that was the agreement we just modernized. It has been modernized with provisions that allow for services, trade and investments. The new trade agreement has nine new dedicated chapters that cover things such as cross-border trade in services, investments, financial services, telecommunications and good regulatory practices. As well, it includes dedicated chapters on inclusive trade, trade that will yield benefits to all in our economies, such as small and medium-sized businesses, which has a chapter. There is the first-ever trade and indigenous peoples chapter to be in a concluded FTA, as well as a chapter on trade and gender, so that the benefits of trade will be shared widely. Ultimately, the outcome of this agreement is a modern, ambitious and fully comprehensive free trade agreement that will fortify the Canadian-Ukrainian bilateral commercial relationship for years to come and will support Ukraine's long-term recovery and trade interests. It is also good for Canada. There are many Canadian companies that have a lot to offer that will benefit from trade and investment in Ukraine. I look forward to leading a business mission to Ukraine. Many businesses I talk to are interested in having the trade minister lead a mission that will open up some of those doors and create the opportunity, and that would just build on the momentum of the new CUFTA. Let me conclude by thanking the negotiators, not only in Canada but also in Ukraine. They were negotiating this in the midst of a war, with sirens blaring and bombs going off around them. I want to thank them for their courage. Let us rebuild Ukraine together.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Mar/20/24 9:23:27 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to commend the government for concluding this agreement with Ukraine. My question is on reconstruction. The former secretary of the treasury Larry Summers, along with others, has advocated for the repurposing of some $300 billion U.S. in seized Russian assets, which are mostly being held in democracies in North America and Europe to be used for the reconstruction of Ukraine in a type of Marshall 2.0 plan. I am wondering what measures, initiatives and discussions the Government of Canada has undertaken in Washington, London and the European Union, and at the European Commission, about this proposal.

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Hon. Mary Ng

Mar/20/24 9:24:11 p.m.
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Madam Chair, indeed, those conversations are absolutely taking place. We share that view, certainly with our G7 colleagues and others, that part of this effort should absolutely include those assets of Russia and using them in the reconstruction efforts. I would say that discussions have taken place and work is under way. It will continue. As I spoke about earlier, I just attended a reception with a number of Ukrainian Canadians, including the ambassador to Ukraine. It was really terrific to hear of and celebrate the agreement receiving royal assent. This is work that we are going to continue to do. I think members have heard us say on the government side that we will be there with Ukraine, standing in support of Ukraine until such time as Ukraine is able to win.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin (Rivière-du-Nord, BQ)

Mar/20/24 9:25:36 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my colleague and the other Liberals who rose before her, be they ministers or not, have been saying for some time how important it is that Canada help Ukraine in this conflict. We are on board with that. We agree with it. However, we also all know that, to date, Canada has delivered on only about 42% of its commitments. I asked a question earlier and I did not really get an answer. The question that I have been asking myself and that I would like the minister to answer is this: How is this possible? What is going wrong? Is it that we are not doing enough to deliver on our commitments? Were the commitments that we made too ambitious? Is that why we are unable to meet them? Why have we only delivered on 42%? Secondly, what are we going to do moving forward to ensure that this does not happen again? It is all well and good to make commitments, but we need to met them. What can we do in the future to deliver on our commitments? We could commit to less, but I think that the solution is to be sure that we can deliver. I would like the minister to comment on that.

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Hon. Mary Ng

Mar/20/24 9:26:47 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member and all of those in the Bloc for supporting this important agreement that we have negotiated and which has now received royal assent. Canada is committed to supporting Ukraine. We have talked about the $13.3 billion of support provided to Ukraine. Here is what I would say about being able to deliver. The agreement to modernize this FTA started in 2019, followed by the pandemic, and then followed by the start of the war. What is quite remarkable is that the agreement was started, negotiated and concluded in just a little over a year, and this was in dire circumstances. What I started to say earlier and quickly concluded was an admiration for the Ukrainian negotiators, who at times were in basements without electricity, with sirens and bombs going off. In the most adverse of circumstances, their commitment was unwavering to complete these negotiations. My counterpart has certainly said to me how important these negotiations were because they signalled Canada's confidence in Ukraine and our steadfast support for Ukraine.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)

Mar/20/24 9:28:50 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan. On the Prairies, Ukrainian culture is so completely intertwined with Prairie culture that it was hard for someone like me, who grew up in a Ukrainian household in rural Alberta, to not know that was not what all of Canada looked like. As a child, I thought that must have been what everyone else grew up with. The co-operation and the relationship Canada and Ukraine have had for as long as the Prairies have existed is an important piece because our relationship has existed for well over 100 years. That relationship is as important, if not more important, today than it was 100 years ago, when we were welcoming Ukrainian settlers, who helped us develop the agricultural strength that we now have on the Prairies and right across Canada. One does not have to look very far in most of rural Alberta, Saskatchewan or Manitoba to see a beautiful onion-domed church. There is also the proud Ukrainian dance heritage, which is a part of our cultural fabric. It is worth noting that former prime minister Brian Mulroney was the first leader to recognize an independent Ukraine back in 1991, and I am very confident that he did that as a direct result of the fact that he had Don Mazankowski as his deputy prime minister, who was from Alberta and represented a very Ukrainian riding. While Mr. Mazankowski was a Polish individual, he was married to a Ukrainian, so I am sure that played a role in that pivotal space. I highlight that to signal how important the relationship is, and always has been, between Canada and Ukraine and between Conservatives and Ukrainians because, frankly, there is no other space or option in this. I want to highlight one of the pieces that I think is really important in this agreement on security and co-operation between Canada and Ukraine, which we are here to debate and have a conversation about tonight. That piece is to continue to engage with the international coalition for the return of Ukrainian children. This is key. As a mom of two little boys, I cannot imagine what it would be like to have my children stolen, yet that is what so many Ukrainians are dealing with today. They have had their children stolen by an evil dictator, Vladimir Putin, and his regime. We need to continue working as a country, as a western space, to highlight the fact that atrocious activities have been undertaken. We have to do everything in our power to make sure we are continuing to fight to bring those children home. Frankly, they deserve it, and Ukraine needs to have people here in Canada and all across the world talking about the fact that those children have been stolen from their parents, from their communities and from their nation. I want to highlight that this is something that I am very proud to see in this, and I hope we will continue to talk about those poor, innocent children, who have been stolen from their families, their communities and their nation. We need to bring them back to Ukraine so they can live in peace and harmony under a free Ukraine. Frankly, we owe it to our partners. We owe it to this strong relationship that we have had for well over a century to make sure that Canada and Ukraine stay in friendship and partnership now and as we go forward.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Mar/20/24 9:33:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, one thing we know Ukraine will need going forward is the ability to rebuild its country. We know the damage that has been caused by the Russian Federation, by Vladimir Putin, in this illegal invasion of Ukraine. The current Liberal government has cut official development assistance by 15% and has indicated that in the next budget, it will cut that by even more. However, the leader of the Conservatives has said that he would also cut it. In fact, there are members of the Conservative Party who have said they do not think we belong in the United Nations anymore. As we try to build a rules-based international order that involves engaging with other countries, being part of multilateral institutions and playing a role on the world stage, how does the member think Ukrainians should see the Conservatives' stance that they would cut foreign aid and step back from the multilateral institutions that are so important to us?

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge

Mar/20/24 9:34:45 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I am not going to take any lessons from NDP members, who speak out of both sides of their mouths when it comes to this issue and so many others. Frankly, if Canada delivered on the promises it has made to Ukraine and gave it the missiles we have sitting in Saskatchewan that are not being used, which Ukraine has asked for, that would go a long way in helping Ukraine deliver on a victory. These are the important pieces that we truly need to keep in mind. Ukraine, right now, is asking for missiles and support so that it can continue fighting this war. We, as partners, have to continue to put the needs of Ukraine first. I am going to stand up and continue standing up, along with all of my Conservative colleagues, to ask that the missiles we have sitting in Saskatchewan, which the Ukrainian embassy has asked for, get delivered so Ukraine can fight and win the war.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 9:35:48 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the Government of Canada has been working very closely with not only Ukraine but allied countries that are supporting Ukraine and providing the type of support that Ukraine has been asking for. A good example of that is the ammunition request, a $40-million commitment, that has us working with the Czech Republic along with other allied forces. It has been encouraging that we have seen a high sense of co-operation among all political parties since the Maidan, I would argue, at the end of 2014 going into 2015. However, there was a great deal of surprise when the Conservative Party abandoned that consensus when it voted against the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. How does the member justify her vote or the vote of the Conservative Party not to support the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement when the President of Ukraine came to Canada during a time of war and asked for this support?

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge

Mar/20/24 9:36:57 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have been very clear that I do not support the carbon tax and that is a very simple thing. I have been very proud to share my Ukrainian heritage and support of Ukraine. I am very proud to have been one of the first members of Parliament to stand in this chamber before the war broke asking and demanding that the Government of Canada act so we could bring Ukrainians here, because it was very clear that the war was starting out, but the government sat on its hands and did nothing. I am not going to take any lessons from members on that side, who are sitting here trying to claim some moral victory when they did not act before the war started when they could have acted and saved the lives of innocent Ukrainians.

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Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)

Mar/20/24 9:37:48 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I was listening to my colleague's speech. One of the points she focused on was children, and I agree 100%. We tend to forget that the Russians have taken Ukrainian children away from their families. I get the impression that this has somehow been forgotten. No one talks about it anymore, yet it should be a priority for every country in the world to ensure that these children find their way back to their families. We are not doing enough in terms of military aid. We are not doing enough in terms of humanitarian aid. As my colleague said earlier, there are children who have been torn away from their families amid general indifference. We also have to think about rebuilding Ukraine. Post-war reconstruction has to start before the war ends. It has to start now. How do we encourage Canada and other countries in the world to invest so that companies have the confidence to go and do business in Ukraine, to ensure that the economy does not fall completely flat at a time when it needs to be strong enough for post-war reconstruction?

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