SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 292 - Mar/20/24

Mar/20/24 8:02:20 p.m.
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Madam Chair, in fact, it is even worse than that. Some 58% of the aid has not been delivered. I am not very good at math, but if my calculations are correct, that means that only 42% of aid has been delivered so far. My colleague has asked me a question I simply cannot answer. It is like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. He has asked me to explain the inexplicable. Why has Canada not kept its word? Why has the Canadian Armed Forces equipment we promised to Ukraine not been delivered? Is it because we no longer have it? Is it because, when we promised it, we thought we still had it? It has gotten to the point where we are asking ourselves these kinds of questions because it is so incomprehensible. It is one thing to have to buy equipment on international markets and wait for it to be ready. However, not even being able to deliver what we had in stock and had promised to deliver is completely incomprehensible. It raises other questions. Was the equipment not in good condition? Did we no longer have the equipment? In short, why was this equipment not delivered? I am answering my colleague's question with a question, because I do not have the answer to his question.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Mar/20/24 8:03:52 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I am a little concerned, so I would love some clarification from the member. He spoke about how supportive he was of the actions of Emmanuel Macron. In response to Macron calling for soldiers to enter into Ukraine's land, the temperature was raised by Putin, in terms of threats of further nuclear responses. I would love to hear the member's clarification on that. It seems to me that is not helping what we are trying to accomplish. We want to ensure that Ukrainians have a peaceful, fast resolution to this, as opposed to raising the temperature.

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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron

Mar/20/24 8:04:53 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would simply like to say that just because Putin says that things will escalate does not necessarily mean that things will escalate. From the start, Putin said that if we helped Ukraine, things would escalate. That is why we started by sending helmets and bulletproof vests. Then we tried sending ammunition. We checked for an escalation but there was none, so we decided to send machine guns. Again, we wondered if things would escalate, and when they did not, we decided we could send some artillery. No escalation followed, so we decided we could send some anti-aircraft systems. Again, there was no escalation, so we decided to repeat the process by sending tanks. I think that Russia was basically blackmailing and threatening us the whole time, but it was never really in a position to follow through on its threats. As I said earlier, the Russians already had their hands full with Ukraine. It would have been surprising if they had decided to engage NATO countries in combat too. I am not saying that we need to send troops. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the mistake in the beginning was to tell Putin that we would not intervene. That left things wide open. We gave him carte blanche. We allowed him to do anything he wanted. The goal was to go back to keeping things vague, create a situation where the Kremlin would be on the ropes again, not knowing what the NATO countries were going to do. However, on day one, we telegraphed the Kremlin what we were and were not planning to do, which was a mistake in my opinion.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP)

Mar/20/24 8:06:59 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Edmonton Strathcona. It has been more than two years since Putin began his full-scale, illegal invasion of Ukraine. Today, New Democrats want to reaffirm our solidarity with Ukraine and Ukrainians. Putin's genocide has killed and injured tens of thousands of Ukrainians and displaced hundreds of thousands more. However, through it all, Ukrainians have maintained their courage in fighting for Ukraine, for democracy, for international law and for an international order based on justice and accountability. Their spirit and resilience in the face of this war shines bright, and they do it for all of us. Since Parliament's last take-note debate on Ukraine, much has changed. The unanimous solidarity among democratic countries is beginning to crack. The long-awaited strategic security partnership package from the United States has been held hostage by far-right Republicans who seek to undermine Ukraine's fight. Hungary's Viktor Orbán has repeatedly blocked Ukraine's membership in NATO and the European Union. At a time when the far right is increasingly listening to Putin, Ukraine needs Canada to step up and support its fight. That is why it is so painful to see what is happening here in Canada. First, we have seen the government not meet the urgency of Ukraine's fight. Time after time, the government announces a new aid package to Ukraine, whether it is for air defence systems, light armoured vehicles, funding toward demining activities, or seized Russian assets, only to have the promise left unfilled. While the government delays its delivery of aid, Ukraine is being bombed and Putin's attacks continue. We must demand that the government quickly deliver on all promised aid packages and find new ways to deliver aid quickly. Second, what is truly painful to see is the erosion of our unanimous solidarity within this very chamber. I know the pride many members of the Conservative Party had when thinking they were champions for Ukraine. However, recently, I was shocked to see the shift in positioning from the official opposition, and Canadian Ukrainians have spoken to me in my riding about how they feel abandoned by this. Not only did the Conservatives vote against the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, but they put up delay after delay on the bill. After President Zelenskyy specifically asked us to support the deal, Conservatives did everything they could to block it. Even last night, the Conservative Party senators teamed up for one last attempt to block the bill. Conservatives also voted against additional monetary supports for Ukraine, with millions of dollars in humanitarian aid and the monies required by Operation Unifier so Canadian Armed Forces members can continue to train Ukrainians. The Conservatives voted against those measures. Canada is not immune to American-style far-right politics. We know that the dog whistles we hear from the Conservatives about cutting foreign aid, refusing to commit to honour the security guarantee and calling Ukraine some “faraway” land are playing to a dark side of their base that we have to call out. As this war continues and we hear more and more escalatory rhetoric from Russia, Canada needs to take a leadership role on the world stage. Last week, Putin openly declared Russia is ready to use nuclear weapons. This was far from the first time the world has heard those threats, but we need to continue to take them seriously. The nuclear threat is the highest it has ever been. The tensions between NATO, Russia and China are constantly rising, and diplomacy between countries is at an all-time low. Canada has a role to play in restarting the necessary talks on nuclear disarmament. Canada could join the 93 other countries that have signed on to the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. We can use our voice on the international stage to push for disarmament negotiations so that Ukraine and our allies are not faced with nuclear blackmail and bullying by nuclear superpowers. This is a moment for all of us to reiterate our commitment to supporting Ukraine and supporting the fight to create a peaceful, just world.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 8:10:55 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I appreciate the member's emphasis on the importance of the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, but my question is in regard to the amount of aid. Today, the Prime Minister of Ukraine indicated that close to an additional $2 billion arrived in Ukraine, which ultimately brings aid closer to the $7-billion mark. It is important that we provide all forms of support for Ukraine. I wonder if the member can provide her thoughts on that issue. I am talking about everything from humanitarian aid to military aid to cash in hand. All of this is really important, and Canada does have a very strong and prominent role to play.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen

Mar/20/24 8:11:48 p.m.
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Madam Chair, Ukrainians are used to all these announcements, but there is no follow-through. Canadians are used to that. There are so many projects and promises that Liberal governments have made over the years that they have never followed through on. While all of those announcements are great, I would really love to see some follow-through.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Mar/20/24 8:12:18 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have seen the response from Canadians from coast to coast to coast. In my riding of New Westminster—Burnaby, the Holy Eucharist Cathedral, which serves the Ukrainian community in both English and Ukrainian, and many other organizations have stepped up to fundraise in the community to provide supports for Ukrainian refugees who come to live there. There is no doubt that there is a consensus in my community of being as supportive of Ukraine as we can be. I note that my colleague said in her speech that she is very supportive of the Ukrainian community in Canada and of the fight for Ukrainian democracy against this horrible dictatorship led by Mr. Putin. I wonder to what extent Conservatives can justify their opposition to the strategic security partnership and their opposition to a trade deal with Ukraine, an opposition that seems to be systematic, when so many Canadians across the country are supportive of the Ukrainian people at this dire time, as they face this imminent threat to their country and democracy.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen

Mar/20/24 8:13:44 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I know my hon. colleague cares a great deal about those in his community who are fighting for their relatives, family members and the Ukrainian diaspora. I too have that in London—Fanshawe. In greater London, there are about 10,000 Ukrainians, and they have said the same thing to me. They are very concerned about this wavering of support they are starting to see and the lack of support for the free trade agreement with Ukraine. I am so proud of the incredible work of the local Ukrainian council and the Ukrainian Centre. There is also the Canadian Ukrainian Logistics Division, which continues to go to Ukraine to deliver much-needed aid: helmets, boots, tourniquets, just name it. They have spoken to me about how concerned they are. I can only say that I do not understand it. I hope the Conservatives see reason and come back to the solidarity that we all need to see for Ukraine.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Mar/20/24 8:14:58 p.m.
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Madam Chair, Conservatives strongly support Ukraine. We supported sending lethal weapons to Ukraine even before the war, at a time when the NDP opposed it and spoke out against it. We supported consistent sanctions against Russia, even when the Liberals were granting sanctions exemptions to Russia. I want to ask the member about the seizure of Russian assets. This is mentioned in the co-operation agreement, in section N. There is very important language there about seizing Russian assets and using them to support Ukraine. One great way that we can continue to ensure Ukraine has the financial support it requires to fight the war and rebuild is to repurpose Russian assets, and, frankly, the government has been behind on this. I wonder if the member would support our call to repurpose confiscated Russian assets and use them to support Ukraine.

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Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen

Mar/20/24 8:15:53 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would probably repeat a lot of what I said to the Liberal member. Conservative actions mean a great deal, and we have seen those actions and a lack of support. They have made their bed and they need to lie in it.

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Actions

Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Mar/20/24 8:16:18 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is an honour, as always, to stand in this place and represent the people of Edmonton Strathcona. I am from Edmonton Strathcona, and at the very beginning of my political career, I became a member of the Canada-Ukraine parliamentary association. I followed in the footsteps of Linda Duncan, the member of Parliament for Edmonton Strathcona before me, who was also the vice-chair of the parliamentary association, the Canada-Ukraine Friendship Group. Of course, we have a very large Ukrainian population, but as I have said many times before, those of us in Edmonton all feel like we are bit Ukrainian. As one can appreciate, Heather McPherson is not a terribly Ukrainian name, but I know my way around perogies and feel very connected to the community. I am very proud of our caucus. I am very proud of the New Democratic Party for standing in solidarity steadfastly with the people of Ukraine. We know Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, who are fighting against Putin and the brutal invasion by Putin and the Russian Federation, are not just fighting for themselves. They are fighting for us. They are fighting for freedom, for democracy and for the international rules-based order, and we need to do everything we can to support them. That is why a little less than two years ago, I brought forward a unanimous consent motion in this House declaring what Russia is doing in Ukraine as a genocide. We were able to get unanimous consent to support that call. We were one of the very first countries in the world to have its Parliament declare that a genocide was taking place. I am extraordinarily proud of the New Democratic Party and being able to bring that motion forward. I am also very happy that we were able to bring a motion forward just this February, which we were able to get unanimous consent for, that talked about reaffirming Canada's support for sanctions against Russia, providing military and financial assistance to Ukraine and conducting a security guarantee agreement with Ukraine. We are here today for that security agreement. It is wonderful to stand in this place and know that New Democrats all across this country are supportive of the work happening in Ukraine. However, I have to say that I have some concerns about the support we have seen from the Liberals and the Conservatives. As my colleague from London—Fanshawe mentioned beforehand, the Liberals are very good at making promises; they are not very good at keeping them. We have seen time and time again the Liberals promise aid, sanctions and enforcement, promise all of these pieces that have never come to fruition. I went to Ukraine a year ago. I stood in Irpin and saw what the Russian Federation had done. I saw how it had targeted civilian infrastructure. I know that many mines in that country need to be cleared, and we need to support Ukraine so it can rebuild. However, at the same time as we know these needs are so great, this year the Liberal government cut official development assistance by 15% and has indicated that there will be further cuts in the budget we will see in April. This is not going to help the people of Ukraine. It is not going to help people around the world who are suffering because of the food scarcity caused by this war. Then we look at the Conservatives. I am very disappointed in their failures to support Ukraine. They will stand in this place and will tell us they are supportive of Ukraine, but actions mean more than words. It is easy to say things. However, when they vote against things like funding for Operation Unifier and things like the fair trade agreement that the President of Ukraine asked us to move forward with, those actions speak much louder. I do not want to stand in this place and claim it is all Conservatives. I know there are members of the Conservative Party who still believe in working together with all parties across this floor to support Ukraine. I know they are there. I hope they will be able to convince their leader to go from the position he has taken to the position we have held for a long time, all parties within this place, of supporting Ukraine. As I said, I am proud to be a New Democrat. I am proud that we are supporting Ukraine. However, there is more we can do. There is more we can do to help it rebuild and demine and to make sure it wins. We can make sure it gets tools quickly and urgently. We need to stop announcing and we need to start delivering, and New Democrats are here. We stand with Ukraine. We remain standing with Ukraine.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Mar/20/24 8:21:20 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the member is eager to politicize these issues, sadly, and cast aspersions on others. I want to point out that in February 2022, this member, on behalf of the NDP, spoke out against sending lethal weapons to Ukraine. I will read a quote from her in committee. She said: Some people in this committee and some members of our Parliament have been calling on the government to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine. I have some concerns about that, obviously. Do you believe there are risks to providing those lethal weapons to Ukraine? This applies in terms of keeping track of those weapons, but more importantly, I'd like some information on how Russia would perceive that. Would they perceive that as an escalation instead of a de-escalation? These are unbelievable comments from the member, opposing sending lethal weapons to Ukraine for fear of how Russia would react. Conservatives stand with Ukraine. We have been in favour of sanctions and in favour of sending weapons to Ukraine from the earliest days. The NDP spoke out against sending Ukraine the weapons they needed to fight back against aggression. Will that NDP member, instead of casting aspersions everywhere else, look at her own conscience and apologize for those pro-Russian sentiments she expressed two years ago?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Mar/20/24 8:22:31 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I think maybe the member needs a glass of water. He seems quite upset. What I will say to him is that what we brought forward, as New Democrats, before the further invasion by the Russian Federation, was looking for peace. We were looking for a peaceful resolution. This happened before the invasion that we saw, the extension of the invasion by the Russian Federation. Of course, we are New Democrats. We are always looking to lessen the loss of life. That is in the very nature of what we do. Today, and this week, we are honouring the work of the Right Hon. Brian Mulroney. I would like the members from the Conservative Party to perhaps reflect upon some of the legacy that Brian Mulroney brought forward. He was not someone I agreed on everything with, but I will say that his support for South Africa, going against the United States at the time, against an apartheid regime was extraordinarily important. I wonder why they found it impossible for them to actually support sending humanitarian aid, perhaps going against the United States, and stopping the selling of arms to Israel, who is using them against civilians. I wonder if this particular version of Conservatism, which I think perhaps the Right Hon. Brian Mulroney would not be as impressed with, would have the courage the former prime minister had in terms of standing up for human rights. We are not seeing it from this particular opposition.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Mar/20/24 8:24:12 p.m.
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Madam Chair, Canadians across the length and breadth of Canada have been very supportive, as my colleague from Edmonton Strathcona has said, in supporting Ukraine, but I think there is a profound problem when one party in the House refuses to support the strategic security partnership and refuses to support a trade agreement with Ukraine that we were asked, by President Zelenskyy, to sign. The former Conservative leader Erin O'Toole would never have taken those radical, extremist stands. The current leader is an extremist. He is a radical. He takes his direction, I believe, from the Republicans in the United States, who have been steadfastly trying to stop any supports for Ukraine. What does it mean when the leader of the Conservative Party calls Ukraine a “far away foreign land” and what does it mean when Conservatives stand with Danielle Smith, who is right beside the major Russian apologist for Putin, Tucker Carlson, who has provided so much damage in trying to attack Ukraine and reinforce the Russian dictatorship? What does this all mean when Conservatives contradict themselves so vehemently?

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The Assistant Deputy Chair

Mar/20/24 8:25:34 p.m.
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When we have only five minutes for questions, it would be good to have shorter questions so we could have more questions. The hon. member for Edmonton Strathcona.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Mar/20/24 8:25:45 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is something that I have been appalled by and that many Albertans I know have been appalled by. We heard from the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan. We did not hear a single peep from him when Danielle Smith stood with Tucker Carlson right before Tucker Carlson went and did an interview in Moscow with Putin and used Russian propaganda. Frankly, I am surprised he was not standing with Tucker Carlson as well, because that is what we have come to expect from this particular member.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Mar/20/24 8:26:28 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to request the unanimous consent of the House to table the editorial I wrote immediately after that interview, which actually outlined and responded directly to some of the claims in it. If there is agreement, would the House allow me to table it to show the member what I actually said?

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Table

The Assistant Deputy Chair

Mar/20/24 8:26:43 p.m.
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Is it agreed? Some hon. members: No.

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Hon. Robert Oliphant (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 8:26:54 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I should say that I am sharing my time with the member for Orléans. It is a real privilege tonight to be a part of this debate. I was hoping, as I prepared for it, that it would be a time where we, from all parts of the House, reflected on the importance of engaging with Ukraine and for Ukraine and of standing firm with Ukraine, leaving some of the other parts aside for tonight. It is no secret that I travel the world a lot. The question of Ukraine and Canada's support for Ukraine comes up often, whether I am in the global south, eastern Europe, western Europe or other parts of the world. I often talk about the fact that it is a surprise to people how much Canada and Canadians are concerned about Ukraine. I think that is because, when they look at Canada, they think we are nice people, but they do not always get the fact that we are committed every day to the values and purposes that we want to uphold. When it comes to Ukraine, there are three factors, I think, at least in my head. One is that we are affronted intellectually at Russia's aggression, its inhumane activity and its lack of understanding of the sovereignty of another country and the international rules-based order. Russia was a G8 member. It is now out of that group, but it is a permanent member of the Security Council and we expect more from it. We have seen the disastrous effects of the war, Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. It affects us and affronts us intellectually, but it is more than that. It is also in our hearts. The other part of this is at the level of our hearts. As has been said in the House, we all know Ukrainians. If we are not of Ukrainian background ourselves, we have friends and family who are deeply affected personally by this conflict and we want to share with them, at a very emotional level, the disaster that is confronting their country of origin. It is also a strategic issue. The reality is that, when many people look at the globe, they see Moscow over here and Ottawa over here, and they think we are very far away. Strategically, if we look at the globe on our toes and look down, we can see that we share a maritime border with Russia in the Arctic, which is already a fragile area. I am not saying that we are preparing for Russia to invade us at any time, but we are sensitive to the strategic importance of Canada maintaining its sovereignty. When we see an affront to the sovereignty of another country, we react. It is intellectual, it is our hearts and it is also about Canadian sovereignty, so we are engaged. Tonight, we will say, once again, that we are committed not just yesterday, not just today, but also tomorrow. We will see this war through until the end. We will only stop when we come to peace, and that peace will only come when it is done on Ukraine's terms. That is our commitment and we will continue to do that. I want to commend the previous Conservative government, which very early on, with the illegal invasion of Crimea, took steps to engage in that fight and set the stage, which we were then able, when we formed government in 2015, to continue. We began by training troops to get Ukraine ready because we knew that it was not the end of the story. The story was still continuing. As we progressed through those years, we also began to look at Ukrainian reform to help Ukraine get ready to be a part of the European Union and to become a part of NATO, which Canada has always been committed to. Ukraine is a country that we want to have as an ally, fit and ready to be a part of the groups that we are a part of, because our security is related to their security. With the illegal invasion two years ago of Russia into Ukraine, we saw the disaster that happened. I would commend the documentary film 20 Days in Mariupol to everyone in this place to see the disaster that the Russian troops, Putin's troops, brought onto the innocent people of Ukraine. That is why we have been awakened to this disaster, which has been caused by Putin's aggression and his failure to understand their sovereignty. We have continued for two years, but not perfectly. I am very clear that our operations have not been perfectly done, but we are a leader among nations in the world in our support for Ukraine financially with sovereign loans, with engagement and with military equipment. We are continuing to support them and to listen to them in everything that they are asking us to do. That is acknowledged daily by Ukrainian politicians, by members of Parliament and by the government itself. Now we get to tonight's take-note debate looking at the Canada-Ukraine strategic security partnership. This is a 10-year commitment, starting with over $3 billion this year, on engaging the readiness, adaptability and resilience of Ukraine to fight for itself. It is a political document. It is military document. It is a security document. It is about co-operation and engagement. It shows our commitment to Ukraine, and we will continue to do that. I look forward to questions. I feel like I am just starting.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Mar/20/24 8:32:37 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my hon. colleague mentioned in his speech how Ukraine and Canada share many similarities, in particular, a shared geography with Russia: Ukraine borders Russia, and Canada shares an Arctic border region with Russia. In light of the fact that Sweden and Finland have recently joined NATO and that NORAD modernization is going on, as the defence minister has indicated, could he tell the House what the government's views are on Canada's role in the Arctic, particularly as it relates to countering some of the threats the Russian Federation presents not just to the Canadian Arctic but to the other Arctic nations in the NATO alliance?

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