44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 18, 2024 11:00AM
- Mar/18/24 12:38:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for her important work in the House.
Right now what we are seeing is tens of thousands of innocent civilians losing their lives. Over 13,000 children have lost their lives. Right now, today, at this moment, there is a population facing starvation. They are facing starvation in 2024, and it is not starvation because there is no food. The food is at the border rotting in trucks instead of getting into the bellies of innocent children.
We need to do everything we can to stop the war and to alleviate the suffering of innocent civilians. This is why part of our motion is to make sure there is a ceasefire and to make sure we stop selling arms to Israel. The final piece, recognition of Palestine as a state, is so that we can build toward this. It is so that the world can work together and we can build toward a more peaceful outcome into the future. Ultimately, what we are all looking for is a secure and safe future for Palestinians and Israelis.
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- Mar/18/24 12:39:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at a time when the number of people facing catastrophic hunger in the Gaza Strip is now 1.1 million, and at a time when the International Court of Justice has already ruled for the State of Israel to take six immediate steps to avoid acts of genocide, today's motion from the NDP is a critical one to compel the government to align its actions with its so-called calls for a ceasefire. It is why Greens have long supported the calls in today's motion.
I applaud the member for Edmonton Strathcona for her courage in bringing it to the floor of the House. I wonder if she could further comment on how important it is that we move in this critical moment to have Canada take steps to align its calls with that which the ICJ and others around the world have already called for.
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- Mar/18/24 12:56:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for her ongoing work. We do not always see eye to eye, but I know we can work together. When it comes to what is happening in the Middle East, of course, we are in close contact with different U.S. officials. I am in contact with my colleague, Tony Blinken, and I have also been in contact with many people in the White House.
It is important that we get to a hostage deal. It is fundamental that hostages be released and that humanitarian aid gets to Gaza. We are extremely frustrated with the fact that Hamas recently decided, before Ramadan, to not take the deal that was on the table. We urge all parties to get to a very important negotiation deal, because at the end of the day, we think that by releasing hostages, by getting humanitarian aid into Gaza and by getting to a humanitarian ceasefire, we will be able to get the temperature down, to stop the violence and, eventually, to get back to a much more sustainable peace for the region. That is fundamental for the region but, at the same time, it will also bring tensions down here in the country.
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- Mar/18/24 12:58:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I said to my colleague from the NDP and I also say to my colleague from the Conservatives, of course, I appreciate working with the member; although, we do not always see eye to eye, but I very much respect his input.
When it comes to our position, it has been clear. It is a position that many G7 foreign ministers have been expressing across the world, which is that we need a hostage deal. We need to make sure that we get to a humanitarian ceasefire and that humanitarian aid must get into Gaza.
There are issues with the motion presented by the NDP. We cannot change foreign policy based on an opposition motion. That being said, I would also like to know what the Conservative Party's position is.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Hon. Mélanie Joly: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, but to my colleagues who are shouting, I would like to know whether they are in favour of a ceasefire or not, when it comes to Gaza.
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- Mar/18/24 1:00:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to note that I did not get an answer from the Conservatives, and I am looking forward to getting one on the question of whether they are in favour of a humanitarian ceasefire or not.
Hon. Michael Chong: A humanitarian pause.
Hon. Mélanie Joly: Mr. Speaker, I am getting information that they are not.
That being said, when it comes to Islamophobia, anti-Semitism and dehumanization, we have to do a better job in this country, and that is the reality. At this point, a lot of people want us to condemn one side and not the other. We have to condemn both sides, and we have to help both sides to eventually get to an understanding that Israelis and Palestinians will have to live together in peace.
As a country, we are there to help. We are an honest broker, and that is what Canada does. That is what we have been doing since the Second World War, when Lester B. Pearson was there during the Suez Canal crisis to help with tensions in that region.
The House has my promise that I will make sure, as the foreign affairs minister of this country, to keep the space for Canada to play a role in what could be consequential times in that region and in the world.
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- Mar/18/24 1:21:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, despite the many positions of the Government of Canada, the motion is not about a ceasefire; the motion is about rewarding Hamas for its massacre. The motion is about a vote to reward the murder, rape and kidnapping of Israelis, and the motion is deeply irresponsible for Parliament.
It is hard to explain and express the complex feelings of shock, fear and anger felt by thousands across the country who are being subjected to the motion today. It would have been enough if they were shocked by the public displays of blatant anti-Semitism in our streets, driven entirely by the irresponsible rhetoric in the House. It would have been enough if they were fearful for what lies ahead in Canada. It would have been enough if they were only angry and betrayed by the government's duplicitous attempt to be all things to all people, like we just heard.
However, today the blind sellout to the forces of evil at home and abroad is what should be a wake-up call like no other to every freedom-loving Canadian who has built any piece of this country and who enjoys everything that those before us built for us.
The motion would be a ceasefire motion if it called for Hamas to lay down its arms, to surrender and to immediately return every single hostage, to bring them home. It is not that.
In the face of some of the world's most vile anti-Semitism, and in the wake of the deadliest day for the Jews since the Holocaust, the Liberal government and the Prime Minister held captive by its NDP overlords are giving in to terror. The motion before us is only the latest example of that. On October 7, 2023, Hamas launched an unprovoked and unjustified attack on innocent civilians in Israel, where hundreds of men and women, young and old, were raped, murdered, tortured and taken hostage. More than 100 of those hostages are still being held captive.
The motion is not only an abandonment of the ongoing fight to bring those hostages home; it is also an abandonment of our ally in Israel. More than that, it is a blind giveaway to Hamas terrorists and those who seek to undermine democracy, freedom and the rule of law in the Middle East and in the western world. It is an insult to everyone who lost a family member in the attack and to anyone who witnesses a nation, an ally, paralyzed by forces so barbaric, so evil, that discussing the motion today flies in the face of civilization and the future of a Palestinian people free of Hamas. There is a reason that Canada has a long-standing policy of not negotiating with terrorists. It is that it rewards barbarism, and worse that it provides an incentive for that barbarism to continue and even escalate.
I want members of the chamber to think long and hard about what many concessions in the motion mean for peace. In the short term they mean that Hamas would remain intact. They mean that no more members of Hamas would be brought to justice. They mean that no more hostages would likely be brought home. In the long run they mean that Hamas would be rewarded for its decision to attack a democratic nation.
They mean that our lost decade of foreign policy in this country would be culminated by a recognition of a state ruled by terror instead of what was once a long-established consensus of Canadian foreign policy by Liberal governments before this one that says that there should be a negotiated solution among parties. The Government of Canada supports parties that want to see a future of two states living side by side in peace and security in a negotiated settlement.
It is shocking and shameful that elected representatives here in this place would support such a dead giveaway to a group literally defined as terrorists by Canadian law. Imagine a future for the Palestinian people free of Hamas. We do not have to imagine it; we see it in the success of peaceful gulf states whose raison d'être is not the annihilation of the other or a perverse nihilism of their own people.
We should not be surprised, however. After eight years of the Prime Minister and his Liberal government, our nation has abandoned almost every principle that we used to be known for on the world stage. It is the Liberal government that called the Taliban our brothers and sisters, that frolicked with African dictators to try to buy a seat on the UN Security Council, that fails the basic task of listing the IRGC as terrorists and banning from this country those who are known backers of these atrocities and who intimidate our own citizens as sport, and that is now taking the side of a literal terrorist organization best known for killing babies in ovens and starving their own citizens in Gaza for more than a generation.
Yes, peace is needed in the Middle East. Yes, we all want to see an end to violence and to see aid reach those who are absolutely in need of it. Yes, we want to find a long-term solution that helps both innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians live in peace and security. Yes, Hamas is responsible for all of the carnage that sets these goals back. However, there is a way to do that without sacrificing our principles, and there is a way to do it that is not a dead giveaway to a murderous, barbaric, inhumane terrorist group.
The motion is not that way. It advances the same kind of foreign policy that sees our foreign minister and the member of Parliament for York Centre caress the hand of a dictator in the 19th year of his four-year term, a terrorist who denies the Holocaust, who denies what took place on October 7, 2023, and who set up the martyrs fund that rewards families of terrorists who killed Jews, including, in some cases, family members in that member's riding. There is no other word than “shameful” for that.
Today she will have a free vote on the motion, and we will all be watching. We will see whether she puts her community first or whether she is just a sellout to the Prime Minister and the radical mob once again, as this is not about foreign policy but about the heartless ploy to placate the domestic audience by a government that has lost its way.
I am not afraid for my community to see the tragic support of a deeply illiberal government stand against it, but I am afraid for our country; for our reputation abroad; and, most of all, for the values that this country is formed upon, the values of order, of democracy, of justice and freedom; and of the precedent that is being set here today with the motion. It would set in place a casual, gradual erosion and a disregard of the very beliefs that make this country special, sending a signal that we support a noisy few over a silent many, lawlessness over principle and what is convenient over what is right.
The government is playing a dangerous game of moral equivalency, pitting one group against another. It misrepresents the truth about support for funding for organizations like UNRWA, in fact for the organization UNRWA. The government promised a month ago that it would cut off the flow of taxpayer dollars to an agency whose members actively participated on October 7, 2023. It is rewarding rapists.
It is yet another empty and broken pledge made in a blatantly transactional manner for domestic politics, one that never saw the funding stop. The government advanced payments instead and upped the amount. These payments are not going to bankrupt our country in a fiscal sense but in a moral sense. The price of abandoning our values, our allies and reason is the true cost of these payments. That is the true cost of the Prime Minister's moral indifference, and that would be the true cost of the motion before us.
It is not too late. We can begin by voting the motion down. We can begin by voting down the Hamas giveaway. We can continue by voting out the immoral, immature Liberal government, and we can finish by putting in place a principled, common-sense Conservative government that will never support this motion, not now and not ever. Hamas is watching the House. Our allies are watching the House. Canadians are watching the House. Our allies and all Canadians will see that there are members on this side who stand in their fight for democracy, who stand in their fight for the west and who stand in their fight for justice.
I will leave colleagues with these words. There are going to be many politicians who make a choice today. Ours will be the right one. I can only hope that members, all members on the other side, make the right one too. When they do not, those who sit with them will have to account for their own choices.
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- Mar/18/24 3:07:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, for five months the Liberals have sat idly by while 30,000 civilians in Palestine have been killed, most of whom have been women and children. It is devastating. Canada needs to take a stand for peace so that no one else is killed, not sit on the sidelines. We need a ceasefire, real humanitarian aid and the release of all hostages.
Will the Liberals finally join so many across Canada, and New Democrats, by voting in support of our motion for peace and justice?
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- Mar/18/24 5:11:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time today with the member for Scarborough Centre.
I have received a lot of messages about the motion happening today, and I want to be clear about what it is not. It is not a motion for a ceasefire and for the release of hostages. If it were, that would be easy, and it would pass in the House. If the NDP wanted a motion on a ceasefire, it could have done so, and such a motion would have been able to bring people together. What we have at this moment is not that, and I am disappointed that the NDP did not rise to that moment.
This motion has divided people and has taken advantage of their pain and vulnerability. It presents a laundry list of foreign policy from which we cannot pick and choose which ones we vote on. It is not a helpful result for community members watching. It is not helpful for developing foreign policy for our country. There is a difference between shouting from the sidelines and governing a country, and this motion is stoking anger and pain among Canadians. The messages I am receiving reflect this.
There is so much pain we are feeling as we watch the war unfold in Israel and Gaza. I was horrified to watch the Hamas attack on October 7 on Israeli civilians, and I am horrified to watch the depths of destruction and the loss of life of Palestinian civilians in Gaza that continues today. I am horrified that there are still hostages being held by Hamas. It has been unfathomable. The war and the cost on civilians continues to be horrific, and it needs to stop. The violence needs to stop.
There was an opportunity to smooth over the divisions we are facing in our country today, and it is an opportunity lost. I have heard comments from all sides that cross lines, be it Islamophobia or anti-Semitism. It is not okay, and communities are hurting.
I have been asked, “Are you pro-Israel, or are you pro-Palestine?” That dichotomy misses the boat. I do not support Hamas. It is a terrorist organization that disregards the value of civilian lives, both Israeli and Palestinian. I do support the Palestinian people and their desire for a state of their own. I support the Israeli people and their state, but I am not a supporter of the Netanyahu government. His government’s response in Gaza has been heavy-handed with a massive death toll, and its actions are not moving toward peace.
This is not just about picking a team. Our hearts are big enough to care for both. We can feel pain for the Israeli people following the October 7 attack, and we can feel pain for the Palestinian people in Gaza for the impacts of this war. Our minds are big enough to seek solutions that focus on the people on the ground who need our support. We need to work together to get there, and stoking divisions stops us from building those bridges to create those solutions.
I want the war to end. I want a ceasefire, and I want the hostages to be released. If I vote against this motion, I am not condoning what is presently happening in Gaza. It is just that the motion does not solve the problem and could introduce more. However, if I vote for this motion, I am not accepting all of its terms either. That is the challenge with an omnibus motion.
I know many people from all sides will be upset by what I will say or will not say and by how I will vote. I have put a lot of thought and heart into what would be the right response, but I accept that there is no way to satisfy everyone, and it is so easy to upset everyone. So be it. The weight is on our shoulders as members of Parliament to step away from the noise and to work toward solutions that can bring peace to the region.
Let us talk about the motion itself, which has many parts, so I have to touch upon them quickly. As I have already said, I support a ceasefire and the release of hostages. We, in fact, voted for a ceasefire at the UN months ago, in December. However, we should be clear when we talk about a ceasefire that it cannot be one-sided. Both Netanyahu's government and Hamas must agree to a ceasefire. This does not land only on one side or the other.
On the trade of military goods and technology, the first piece is that we cannot stop the illegal trade with terrorist organizations. The preamble of the motion recognizes a risk to Israel from Iran-backed terrorist groups, like Hezbollah and Hamas. As far as permits to export non-lethal military equipment to Israel, they should be reviewed independently. There are different purposes for these goods. They should be reviewed, like any other permit, individually, on their purpose and use. We have been talking about, because we need to be clear, non-lethal military goods and technology.
UNRWA funding is in place, and despite the temporary pause, no payments have been missed. The next payment was always due in April, and will be paid in April. In 2016, I supported the reinstatement of funding for UNRWA that had been cancelled under the previous Conservative government. I did this because Palestinian people needed supports that the agency was best placed to deliver, but I was deeply shaken by allegations of the participation of members of UNRWA in the October 7 attack against Israel. If true, it is simply inexcusable.
At the moment, there is an emergency situation facing the people in Gaza; they need aid now. I support the temporary return of funding to UNRWA. Right now, the most important thing is to get aid to people in need. On that front, Canada has stepped up with significant funding. We can have a larger conversation about UNRWA when this emergency is over and when investigations are complete, but providing aid has to be our priority now. I support immediate, unimpeded humanitarian access to Gaza.
On international courts, as a lawyer, I support independent court systems and seeing them do their work. I will not presuppose the outcome of their work. As a country, we do not have to support any applicant, respondent or intervenor. We can respect the courts and their work. I do.
There are Canadians who want to leave Gaza. We need to get them out. I have been working with local community members to try to get their loved ones to safety. To do it, we need the agreement of neighbouring countries to allow people through their borders. We will continue to press for it. Once we are able to coordinate with neighbouring countries for people to leave Gaza, our Minister of Immigration has already stated that the number of visas could be increased, and I support that position.
Next, the motion speaks about extremist settlers, about inciting genocide, and about sanctions on Hamas leaders. I am troubled by the wording of this part. I do not like it, I have to say, but I cannot touch on each piece in too much detail. Let me say, in my view, any person, regardless of their country of origin, who incites genocide against any identifiable group should not be given entry to our country and should face penalties.
Our government has already committed to taking action in respect of extremist settlers in the West Bank. On terrorists, I think it should go without saying that I agree we should not let terrorists into our country and should maintain sanctions against them.
The next parts of the motion are connected. They are about going to a two-state solution and unilaterally recognizing the state of Palestine. I support a two-state solution. Palestinians and Israeli people will need to lead that effort with global support. It is premature for Canada to recognize a state before this negotiation. I want to see two states: Israel and Palestine. Let us work toward that goal, but let us not impose it from this side of the ocean.
There are parts of this motion that I support and others that I do not. On many, the Liberal government has already taken action or has made public calls for action. Unfortunately, I cannot break the components of the motion apart. I cannot change the wording.
I would like to take a moment to end where I began, which is to remind everyone that our hearts and minds are big enough to step out of a simple black and white, “pick a team” approach to this war. Neighbours, friends and communities are being torn apart.
This is a time when Canada can show that our diversity can be a strength because it forces us to see different points of view. Right now we are letting it be our weakness. That cannot be where the story ends for this era. Let us show we can have empathy, and let us not add to the hate.
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- Mar/18/24 5:22:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question, because I think it goes to the crux of the problem I have with the motion's being an omnibus motion with many different parts to it. I think there is so much that we, all of us across all sides of the aisle, can support, and it would be really wonderful if we could show that moment. There are some pieces of the motion that do deal with, for example, sanctions against Hamas leaders, so it is not that there is no mention of that. However, I say that a lot of it could be stronger in acknowledging the role of Hamas in this and the fact that it needs to be part of getting to a ceasefire; that is also in its hands.
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- Mar/18/24 5:42:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, lasting peace in the region is really very important, and we have to make sure that we put an end to the killing of innocent civilians. We have lost over 31,000 innocent civilians through this war.
Voting in favour or against this motion is about morals; it is about humanity. I will be voting in favour, because I think it is the right thing to do. There should be an immediate ceasefire, and there should be unimpeded access for humanitarian aid in the region.
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- Mar/18/24 5:56:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am sorry the hon. member does not understand what the motion actually calls for. It calls for the ceasefire. It calls for that peace. It calls for the recognition of two states in order to create a two-state solution. It does not recognize anything beyond what Hamas has done, and we certainly call that out in terms of the violence that has been created.
Ultimately, violence has to stop before conversations can begin, and that has taken a long time. That may continue to take a long time. We have to take a stand, and we have to show the courage to do so. I ask the hon. member to take a serious consideration of what that courage looks like.
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- Mar/18/24 5:58:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think those are really great questions for the Liberals within caucus. I certainly have seen some come forward to openly support this and some of those who do not. I am frustrated by the fact that the government seems to want to be able to take two sides on this, when calling for a ceasefire is what I truly believe is necessary, and coming forward.
Again, I call for courage within the House. I advocate for all members in the House to do so. I know that, within my community, the frustration with Liberals trying to hold both sides will not continue to hold water.
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- Mar/18/24 6:11:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, maybe the member is right. Liberals have been effective in burning up time when we could have saved lives. That is the real issue New Democrats have with them.
We have called for a ceasefire consistent with what Canadian values used to be many decades ago, even under Liberal regimes. I was here for the debate when we were deciding whether to take part in the war in Iraq, and I can say there was never a point in time, in debates back and forth, we could escape the fact that we played some role with the UN or the United States or other democracies across the world.
Today, the Liberals have sidelined our effectiveness and basically neutered our position internationally.
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- Mar/18/24 6:26:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, any death of a human being is a tragedy. We are getting statistics, and the hon. member mentioned the figure of 30,000 from the Hamas ministry of health, but I do not know how accurate that is. I do know that many of those people are Hamas fighters. Of course, there are innocent civilians killed in wars, and we feel horrible for the fact that they are innocent civilians.
We have to call upon Israel to exercise maximum restraint. Of course, I would love to see a temporary ceasefire for six weeks, for example, as called for by the Americans, but Hamas needs to agree. We have had Hamas break previous ceasefires. We have had Hamas refuse to release the hostages, and until those hostages are released, it is very unfair to say to Israel, “Leave your people in tunnels under Gaza forever”, which I think is essentially being called for in the motion before us.
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