44th Parl. 1st Sess.
December 11, 2023 11:00AM
Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to address the many different types of issues on the floor of the House, and today we do that through Bill S-210.
The title of the legislation, protecting young persons from exposure to pornography act, sends a fairly powerful message. There is absolutely no doubt about that. When I think about the community I represent and the experiences I have had as a parliamentarian over the years with regard to this very sensitive issue, I suggest that it goes beyond pornography. What we are really talking about is the safety of our children.
We all have serious concerns with how the Internet has evolved, with access to the Internet and with what our young people are seeing on the Internet. I believe there is an onus and responsibility on all of us in that respect, not only at the national level but also at the provincial level. Even in our school system, we all have a sense of responsibility, not to mention the parents and guardians of children. We all have a very important role in recognizing that which quite often causes harm to the minds of our children, either directly or indirectly, and the impact it has, putting a child on a specific course in life.
I do not say that lightly. When I look at the legislation and think of the intimate images on the Internet, all I need to do is look at some of the streaming services, whether it is Netflix, Crave or the many others out there. I suspect that if we were to apply what is being suggested in this legislation, it could prove to be somewhat problematic. I do not know to what degree the sponsor of the bill has thought through the legislation itself. The title is great. The concern is serious. We are all concerned about it. However, when I think of the impact that this has on our children, I believe it is not just through pornography. Cyber-bullying is very real. We often hear of very tragic stories where a young person is bullied through the Internet.
We need a holistic approach to what we can do as legislators to protect the best interests of children. In looking at the legislation, there seems to be a mix of criminal and administrative law. On the one hand we are saying it is illegal, giving the impression that criminal law needs to deal with it, yet there is an administrative penalty being applied if someone has fallen offside. I see that as a bit of an issue that needs to be resolved.
However, the biggest issue we need to look at is why the bill is fairly narrow in its application with respect to harms to children. I used the example of cyber-bullying. It seems to me that the department has been very proactive and busy on a number of fronts, whether it is with the online news legislation or other legislation. I know departments are currently in the process of looking at legislation to bring forward in the new year that would have a more holistic approach to dealing with things that impact or harm young people. I suspect that through the departments, with the amount of consultation that has been done and continues to be done on the issue, we will see more solid legislation being provided.
In the legislation being proposed, issues arise, such as concerns dealing with the Privacy Commissioner. It is easy for us to say we want to ensure that young people watching these programs are at the age of majority. It is a difficult thing to ultimately administer. I am not aware of a country that has been successful at doing so. I am not convinced that the legislation being proposed would be successful at doing that.
In terms of the age of majority, I was citing earlier today how things can be very easily manipulated, such as by using VPN technology, which I must say I am not familiar with. Someone could be at their house and could somehow change their location to give the perception that instead of being in one community or neighbourhood, they are someplace thousands of miles away. There is also the whole idea of using identification that is not necessarily theirs. I will cite the example of teenagers being among friends when it comes time to get alcohol. False identification is often used or encouraged in certain areas by teenagers to acquire alcohol. To believe that there would not be any manipulation of the system would be wrong. Imagine a person getting information that then gets submitted as data points for a company and how harmful misinformation would be to the individual who has that identification.
To what degree has this legislation been worked on with the Privacy Commissioner? I suspect that the Privacy Commissioner might have something to say about the legislation. The difficulty that I have is in the name, Bill S-210, protecting young persons from exposure to pornography act. I believe that each and every one of us here today would understand that pornography for minors is not a good thing. It does have an impact.
I remember taking a course in sociology many years ago at university, and a test group was put to the side. One part of the test group had to watch hours and hours of pornography, and in the other group it did not occur. The groups were then brought together and the consequence was striking. The group that watched pornography was more open, to the degree that they did not think certain offences and the inappropriate treatment between sexual partners were all that bad.
This has an impact in a very real way. I understand the concern, but we should be broadening the concern to include things like cyber-bullying. We need to leave it to the department to bring forward more comprehensive and substantive legislation that would take out some of the conflicts and deal with issues from the Privacy Commissioner. It would ultimately be better for all of us.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague has done so much work on this. Canadians do see that they have just a handful of companies that largely control their access to food, which is something they cannot just decide to do without, and that the leadership of those companies do not feel any sense of responsibility for their incredible money-making power, which has grown, as the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford has pointed out, over the last number of years. The leadership of the companies do not have any sense of responsibility for the fact that they are the ones who control the food.
This is not just another product on the market. This is Canadians' access to the basic necessities of life. The companies have been allowed to do that for exactly the reason that my colleague identified, which is a sense of deference: If they are a big company, they must be doing something right and we do not want to get in their way. However, we have to do better in Canada than to allow a handful of companies that control our access to food to single-mindedly pursue the highest return to their shareholders, because it is Canadians who are getting burned.
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- Dec/11/23 7:40:55 p.m.
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Madam Chair, by the sounds of it, the member has done a great deal of learning when it comes to indigenous people.
I do not have enough time to lecture the members of this place on the difference between “responsibility” and “partnership”. We have a treaty with many indigenous nations, and it requires us to fulfill that in a good way. However, when we hear language like the member spoke of in terms of the lack of results for funding, it sounds reminiscent of a quote: “Canada's aboriginals need to learn the value of hard work more than they need compensation for the abuse suffered in residential schools.” The member who said that was the member for Carleton, the leader of the Conservative Party today.
Does the member condemn that statement and stand with indigenous people?
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- Dec/11/23 8:35:58 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to thank my colleague on the other side for his question and for the co-operation we are able to have from time to time.
Respectfully, I think he is not qualified to ask any questions on this issue, given that his party and his leader, when they were in government, built about 99 homes for indigenous communities.
I just finished talking about the fact that there is a lot of work to be done in terms of the responsibility we have toward indigenous communities across the country. We continue to work to make sure that we are responding to the needs of the indigenous communities. There is always room for improvement, but I respectfully say that my colleague on the other side will have to speak to his leader to do better and actually make a better commitment to indigenous communities across the country.
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- Dec/11/23 8:52:00 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the hon. colleague for his impressive speech on this.
One of the issues that the Liberals brought up in a previous speech is around housing and that housing is a shared responsibility. I was wondering if the member has any more comments around that.
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- Dec/11/23 10:52:48 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I am a little confused by the question. We are not actually here today debating a bill. We are here having a take-note debate, which is something the NDP brought forward because we know that there are going to be significant cuts to Indigenous Services Canada.
Yes, I will always work for clean water. I am happy to talk about the nations in my riding that still struggle with clean water because of the systems that continue to oppress, but the reality is that what we need to see members on the government side understand is that there is unconscious bias that they are allowing to permeate everything that they put forward. That unconscious bias is their responsibility, even if it is unconscious. They must take what is invisible and make it visible, and that is hard. I understand that. At the same time, that is not an excuse.
Hopefully, we will see the current government take it seriously, because we have not seen any government before take it seriously. If this is the most important relationship the Liberals have, I certainly would not want to investigate a relationship with them.
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