44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 1, 2023 02:00PM
- Nov/1/23 4:18:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am sure the House would agree with me that we are witnessing a certain level of hypocrisy today.
On the one hand we have a Conservative Party that likes to pretend it is supporting what is taking place and Canada's position with the allied forces against what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Today, we were supposed to be debating Bill C-57, which plays a direct role with respect to Canada-Ukraine relations and what is taking place in Europe today. Instead of debating that bill, not only for the first time but now for the second time, the Conservatives are preventing it from being debated and being passed to go to committee.
The question I have for the member is this. His colleague, the member for Cumberland—Colchester, said that Bill C-57, the Canada-Ukraine trade deal, is woke. He said that Canada is taking advantage of Ukraine at a time of war by bringing in the bill. Is that why the Conservative Party continues to play the game of preventing the debate on Bill C-57 and it going to committee?
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- Nov/1/23 4:36:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member and I work together on the veterans committee, and I enjoy working with her. However, I do wish that we were actually debating the Ukraine trade agreement, as we were hoping to do.
I have looked at the recommendations of this particular report. Right now, we are doing a very important study in committee about women veterans, and I see that recommendation 2 talks about having the “Government of Canada work with Ukraine and other international partners in support of the documentation, investigation and prosecution of sexual- and gender-based violence committed during Russia's war against Ukraine, and provide support to survivors.
All too often in war, women and children are targeted very specifically. I wonder whether the member agrees with this, and how she thinks Canada can better support it moving forward.
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- Nov/1/23 4:50:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are many reasons to be debating this concurrence motion. We have a government that was very slow to act in helping any of our allies when war first broke out in Ukraine.
At the natural resources committee, I even suggested that we get liquid natural gas and our oil products to our allies much quicker than even the minister when he went to Paris at that time. The government came out early and said it could not do that. Then it changed its mind, just as it has done on so many of these natural resource issues, particularly of late with the carbon tax issue in the Maritimes.
There are some situations with the recommendations in this report, and the Wagner Group is just one of them. I am wondering why the Liberal government is so hesitant to recognize them as a terrorist organization.
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- Nov/1/23 4:53:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are 15 recommendations in total, and in the government's detailed letter, a 12-page response to the recommendations, it indicated that it would take note of it.
The member started her comments by talking about the trade agreement. The best I can tell, at least the Bloc, New Democrats and Liberals want to see that trade agreement pass through. All of us anticipated that that would be what we were debating today.
We are talking about a report that everyone agrees with. No one is questioning it. The report is being used as a tool to prevent debate on the trade agreement. If the Conservatives do not support the trade agreement, then fine, they should say so. They should have the courage to stand up to say that they do not support the trade agreement.
Otherwise, why are the Conservatives preventing the debate from occurring? Why will they not let the trade agreement between Canada and Ukraine go to committee? I highlighted the fact that we even had the president, during wartime, leave Ukraine to come to Canada to sign the trade agreement. It is a good agreement. The legislation is there. We should be passing it through the system.
My appeal, once again, to the Conservative Party is for them to stop wasting the time of the chamber. Let us debate Bill C-57, and let us get it to committee. Let us make a powerful statement to the world, jointly, in an non-political fashion, by supporting Ukraine at this difficult time in history.
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- Nov/1/23 5:36:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I associate myself with the hon. member's observations with respect to the Conservative Party. It is puzzling, to say as a generous observation, and hypocritical may be less generous.
However, I am particularly interested in the ultimate hypocrisy that we are not here debating the free trade agreement, which was scheduled, but debating something else. It is an expression on the part of Ukraine to join the family of nations that wish to govern themselves by the rule of law. In some peculiar way and, I would say, even hypocritical way, we play into Vladimir Putin's hands, who is just simply playing for time.
Does the member join me in the worry that by not debating it and by not entering into this agreement, in fact we are not only playing into the playbook of the Russian leader but also that Ukraine is simply dropping from the media cycle and it leaves Ukraine very vulnerable?
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- Nov/1/23 5:38:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, I just want to start by saying how disappointed I am that we are having this debate on a concurrence motion, when we should be debating the trade agreement with Ukraine.
I just have to stand here and express the profound grief I am hearing from so many across my riding of North Island—Powell River. When the illegal war began when Russia invaded Ukraine, there was a feeling of profound heartbreak. There are a lot of Ukrainians in my riding who came together to fight really hard to do all they could.
I remember being on the phone with constituents who were telling me that they were calling their families at home and that in the background, they could hear the explosions. They were so worried about where their family members were and whether they were safe. There were conversations during which explosions would happen, and then the line would die. I have sat, as I hope many people in this place have, with people who are refugees from Ukraine and are so terrified because they do not even know when it is going to be safe to go home. They are worried about their loves ones.
This is really important, and here we are discussing a committee report that was unanimously agreed upon, instead of talking about how we could work to make this country stronger and better, and how we could work with Ukraine in a positive way. It is important that as we have these discussions, we remember that we are the voices of our constituents and that so many of them right now are hurting profoundly. It is important because we know that when this happens, it destabilizes other countries. That destabilization has an impact on all our communities and our country. The people in our communities who are related to those folks in other countries have a profound response, and we must recognize that.
That leads me, of course, to think about my personal pain and heartbreak connected to the profoundly terrifying experience we are seeing right now in Israel and Gaza. All of us in this country are seeing things on the screen, and it is painful for us to see them. I cannot imagine living that. Our leader has been very clear, repeatedly, in this place and in the media, that we condemn unequivocally the terrorist violence of Hamas, which has killed thousands. I have heard from the Jewish community, in my riding and outside my riding, of the profound pain, concern and trauma it is experiencing right now because of this action. What we are witnessing in Gaza is beyond overwhelming. We know that children are being killed at a rate we have not seen in a very long time, and that women and the elderly are indiscriminately attacked. So many are dying. Civilians of these countries are dying. We must all stand together to say that is not okay.
The NDP and our leader have been very clear. We are calling for an immediate ceasefire. I despair that the government has not chosen to stand up with respect to this issue. When we see what we are seeing, we have an obligation, morally, to call for a ceasefire and to do all that we can as a country to stand strong against it. We all know, historically, what it looks like when we do not.
How many apologies do we have to make in this place because we do not stand up and do the thing that is right when it is time to do it? Right now, in our own country, anti-Semitism and anti-Palestine hate are increasing. Islamophobia is increasing. People are afraid. They are afraid for themselves, for their loved ones and for our children. When we do not stand up collectively, we create a much less safe environment for everyone. That is really important. When we think about our privilege in this place, we have to think about how we take that power and what we do with it, and when we do things, what that means for people who do not have the same voice as we do. People are not safe. We all have to stand up against that.
I remember speaking with a dear friend of mine who escaped the Holocaust, just barely, and lost so many loved ones to concentration camps. She no longer believed in God. She no longer believed that anything in the world could allow this to happen. I remember those conversations with her and the terror she had experienced. One of the things I will never forget is that she said she did not believe in God but prayed for peace unceasingly. Every day, she prayed for peace because she did not want anyone to experience what she had experienced, and she did not want anyone to lose the family that she had lost. I hope that all of us are remembering that, every time we do not do all that we can for peace, we are really disrespecting those who are gone.
In this time as well, when we are seeing an increase in foreign interference in our elections and when we are seeing communities being destabilized because of an active agenda of some countries to interfere, we have to again remember that every step we take matters, that people are watching and looking for leadership and stability. They are looking for consistency. I call on the government again. Please stand up and say that it is time for a ceasefire and that our voice, collectively, as Canada, is calling for that, so civilians get what they need to survive and so we can do everything in the name of justice, moving forward.
To come back to the concurrence motion, it is about Ukraine, and I am going to talk about it. Again, I want to remind all the listeners at home and, of course, especially in North Island—Powell River, that this is something the Conservatives moved. It is a concurrence motion, which means we are not debating the bill we were supposed to debate today, which is on having a trade agreement with Ukraine. The report that we are right now spending this time debating was supported unanimously. We are debating it to say, again, that we are going to agree with the report.
I think it is important that this committee is the foreign affairs committee. Right now, that committee is meeting. What they are meeting about is the situation at the Russia-Ukraine border and the implications for peace and security. Right now, that work is happening in another space in this place, and it is really important work. The Global Institute for Food Security is talking. The United Nations' World Food Programme and the Grain Farmers of Ontario are also some of the witnesses today. They are talking about the importance of this, so why are we here when this work has already been done? Why are the Conservatives making us debate something that has already been agreed upon? I think there are political reasons, and it is very disappointing. If they have a problem with the bill that is in front of the House, then let us debate it. Let us do the work of the House and look after that.
I have to say that, in my riding, not too long ago, we had an amazing couple of events called Still Standing With Ukraine. The Comox Valley Ukrainian Cultural Society put them together. It was a couple of events just to bring awareness again to what was happening in Ukraine and to highlight some of the refugees locally within our region who are in our communities and who are doing the best they can when they are under such emotional distress because of what is happening in their own country. They were beautiful events where we got to see some profoundly amazing Ukrainian dancers from Alberta who came out to fundraise, to make sure that the people here in our area have the supports that they need. I want to give special thanks to Janette Martin-Lutzer, who is the ED there and who did just a phenomenal job of educating people. I just think it is so important.
I want to say that when this happened in my riding, when Russia attacked Ukraine, we had so many phone calls to our office. Tons of people were calling. They wanted to do all they could to help, so we collected a list. It was a significant list of constituents. We were able to create an email list, and then our office went out and found everybody in the region who was doing work to support refugees who were coming. We were able to bring them all together. We did a town hall. A lot of people showed up for the virtual town hall, and all those organizations and groups that are doing incredible work in the riding were able to talk about what they were doing, how they were doing it and how people could help. It was amazing.
Something I am so proud of in my riding is that when people need help, we come together. There is a large Syrian family in our riding. A lot of people came together to support that family, and every time I see the leaders of that family, I am told about all of the success because of what the community invested and because the community stood up. Again, for this, I have been profoundly moved. People come together. They want to support people who are struggling and suffering, and we need to make sure those supports are in place, so why are we here debating this when there is so much work to be done?
I will talk about some of the recommendations and show the people that all parties agree. One of the recommendations is “That the Government of Canada continue to play a leading role in the pursuit of justice and accountability for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violations of international human rights and humanitarian law in relation to Russia’s war against Ukraine.” I agree with this, and I think it is something we should be talking about in the context of what we are seeing happen in other places in the world. Of course we want to see the Government of Canada stand up. Hopefully every party here agrees, and according to the report, all parties do agree, that we should do that. We should stand up for human rights and for justice. I know people in my riding are calling for that. They want to see action taken. They want to see accountability, and they want to know that human rights are being protected and that Canada is doing everything possible to make sure those human rights are being protected.
Another recommendation is “That the Government of Canada work with Ukraine and other international partners in support of the documentation, investigation, and prosecution of sexual- and gender-based violence committed during Russia’s war against Ukraine, and provide support to survivors.” This is a particular passion of mine. We know that in every war, women and children are the focus of much violence. As well, the 2SLGBTQIA+ community is targeted for horrific crimes that we should never see happen, but that we know, unfortunately, do. We need to make sure there are processes put into place. I know that in my work in the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association, we have talked about how important it is for women, peace and security that these things are documented and that we make sure that international law has the capacity to take information. Things are changing quickly, and information is recorded often on social media. Something we need to make sure of is that, if things are recorded and they can be verified as clear sources, that information can be used under international law to hold people to account for the violence they do during wartime.
There are a lot of conversations. I am glad to see that all parties agree that this is important. We need to protect people. We need to have very strong international law so that when people do terrible things like this, they know they are going to be held to account.
Another recommendation is “That the Government of Canada work with Ukraine and other international partners to prosecute individuals principally responsible for Russia’s crime of aggression against Ukraine by supporting the establishment of the Special Tribunal for the Crime of Aggression against Ukraine or another similar mechanism.” It is a little bit rich to be in this space having this conversation, knowing that the work is being done in committee, and here we are agreeing to agree instead of talking about how we are going to support Ukraine in the trade deal. We are at the part where the legislation has not even gone to committee yet. Let us get it to committee. If there are concerns, let us do the work in committee. That is where the work happens.
Again, I am frustrated. At a time in the world when we are seeing so much incredible violence and when young people across this country are worried about that violence and are worried about the climate crisis we are in and the fact that we are teetering on the brink of profound outcomes that could leave the world physically unsafe for people to even be in, why are we wasting time in this place when we could be doing the work that needs to be done? There are serious things happening in this country and other countries that we have to take a leadership role in as Canada, and this is what we are doing instead.
It is really important that we talk about the recommendation to “strengthen global food security, and the role of Ukraine as one of its guarantors, and join the efforts with Ukraine on the Black Sea Grain Initiative in the Global South.” The reality is that we have sanctions. I have seen the graphs in my work at the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association. The sanctions had an impact, which was then lost. We need to support this country, and I hope we can get on to more important business.
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Madam Speaker, earlier I was criticized for talking about housing when we were debating this bill, which calls on us to do everything in our power to ensure that children do not go to school on an empty stomach. My colleague is supposed to be talking to us about this bill, but she is talking about the carbon tax. Her comments are completely off topic and I would ask you to call her to order.
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- Nov/1/23 6:20:03 p.m.
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I have to remind members that when they are debating or asking questions about a particular bill, it should be related to the bill. I am sure that the hon. member is going to bring it around and back to the bill.
The hon. member for Lambton—Kent—Middlesex.
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- Nov/1/23 7:06:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we know, and it is our party's position, that there may have been problems with the tourism industry and that it potentially paid the price for the application.
However, we are supposed to be debating a number of other topics. At the moment, we are debating committee reports when we should be moving bills forward.
Why is it that every day in committee a constant stream of motions prevent us from really doing our job?
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