44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 15, 2023 11:00AM
- May/15/23 12:08:04 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member opposite and the NDP for their very thoughtful collaboration on this piece of legislation. It has been extremely important to hear the perspectives of all members, but we appreciate the thoughtfulness of the proposed amendments and the collaborative way in which the party opposite has worked with the government to strengthen the approach.
When we pass this legislation, the outcomes we are all hoping for are better protections and a healthy environment for all Canadians. There are many stories across the country where Canadians' environmental protection has not been considered. In fact, as Minister of Indigenous Services, I have many examples I can and will share through this time period.
There are examples of communities with drinking water that has been irreversibly damaged and contaminated. There are long-standing health conditions relating to environmental contamination; this not only results in ongoing suffering and premature death but also millions, if not billions, of dollars spent to try to ameliorate that contamination.
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- May/15/23 12:14:02 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, I know that this member has had a lot of input on this legislation, which is in a very robust form as a result of the many deliberations and studies, and the amendments proposed, including by the member opposite. For me, as Minister of Indigenous Services Canada, ensuring that people have the right to water and land that is uncontaminated is top of mind. I know this legislation would get us a long way in that direction.
There is nothing more tragic than meeting with a community that has no access to the freshwater body right next to it. Let us take Tataskweyak Cree Nation, for example, where the lake the people have lived beside for generations is now poisoned, for lack of a better word, and in fact is causing a number of health concerns in the community. Children are no longer allowed to swim in the lake. They routinely find dead wildlife in that lake. We can do better, and this legislation would bring us a long way toward that goal.
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- May/15/23 12:17:26 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, I want to highlight the fact, which I really appreciate, that the minister opposite said that the NDP is right. I love to hear that and I would love to hear it some more.
Some of the report stage amendments in the bill are actually looking to require the government to engage in indigenous and public consultations in regard to the introduction of new living organisms, including those genetically engineered, which my colleague was asking about. I do not think the minister had a chance to answer, and I would really like her to respond to that as well.
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- May/15/23 12:18:01 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, first of all, as it would happen, most of us are right at least once in a while, and I am always happy to give credit where credit is due.
In terms of indigenous consultation, I want to reflect on Natan Obed's remarks at the Inuit-Crown partnership committee meeting, which I had the incredible, immense honour of attending over the past week in Nain, Labrador. Indeed, President Obed said that no government has done more for indigenous persons than this one has. This reflects the ongoing work and commitment of the Prime Minister, and indeed the government, to place reconciliation at the forefront of what we do, and to ensure that, as we proceed through the House, we are including indigenous voices, consulting indigenous peoples and strengthening law that makes it a requirement for indigenous voices to be consulted and indigenous rights to be respected. The UN declaration that was passed through the House last year is a testimony to that, and I look forward to the action plan that my colleague, the Minister of Justice, will be bringing forward.
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- May/15/23 12:20:17 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, it is great to hear the member opposite get up to advocate for an indigenous community in his riding, and I have spoken with him a number of times about communities in his riding. It is important that we advocate for the most vulnerable communities.
Grassy Narrows is a perfect example of why we need speed in passing this legislation. We cannot have any more situations like the one in Grassy Narrows. We cannot have any more situations where people are being contaminated, often without their knowing. We can look at how, just recently, Imperial Oil is affecting the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation and the Mikisew Cree First Nation. These are tragedies that are preventable, and that is what this legislation would attempt to get at, which is to protect the right to a healthy environment for all Canadians, no matter how remote.
On the subject of the Grassy Narrows treatment centre, I am pleased to report to the member opposite that I met with Chief Turtle and his consulting group last week, and that we do have a path forward to address the ongoing need for the treatment centre.
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- May/15/23 12:31:03 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, after travelling around the country visiting with indigenous communities over the past two years, the most heartbreaking aspect is visiting a community that has seen a significant degradation of its environment related to industrial activity.
We do not have to look very far. These are communities in northern Ontario. I know some members have never been there, but when one visits the community, one sees environmental pollution, and one could say environmental racism. There are people living there, and they have a right to a healthy environment, just like everyone in Montreal, Toronto, Windsor and Thunder Bay does, for that matter.
This legislation is important. It is important to make sure that we do not have an out-of-sight, out-of-mind perspective when it comes to environmental rights. This legislation helps to get us there.
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- May/15/23 12:31:55 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, the minister spoke about the need for the government to listen to indigenous communities. The AFN wrote to the government and provided recommendations.
The first recommendation was to include the words “future generations” in the protection of the right to a healthy environment. We heard the same recommendation from indigenous leaders at committee. Giving future generations a right to a healthy environment is not only a critical step forward to protect human health and the environment, but also an important way to listen and act on the recommendations from indigenous leaders.
I tabled an amendment to reflect that request, but the government voted it down. I am wondering if the minister can speak to why.
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- May/15/23 12:33:35 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, as I have been listening, I have heard there “is no time to waste”, that we have a right to a clean environment and that this is “a duty”.
We have to uphold the principles of a clean environment for Canadians and our indigenous people, for sure. I am confused that this legislation did not come until February 2022, and it has taken this long and multiple amendments to what clearly must have been a sorely lacking piece of legislation.
It is important that we get to spend the time we need to make sure that it is done right. I would ask the member how it is that this has suddenly become a priority and, unfortunately, came in as such a weak bill in the first place.
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- May/15/23 12:34:29 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-5
Madam Speaker, on a point of order, the member referred to “our indigenous people”.
The member for Winnipeg Centre has raised this point a number of times in the House, requesting members to not use possessive language. Indigenous people do not belong to the members of the House, so I would ask the member to use different language.
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- May/15/23 12:35:02 p.m.
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That is debate. This has been requested by an indigenous member of the House.
The hon. minister has the floor.
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- May/15/23 3:13:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, since July 1, 2016, the federal government has approved an estimated 2.56 million products under Jordan's principle. This means that indigenous children are getting the health services they need all across the country.
As the member opposite knows, I am looking into this particular case. We will ensure that providers who provide services can get paid in an acceptable time frame to continue to deliver those services.
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I am pleased to have the opportunity today to speak to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act. I would like to recognize the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations for his work on this piece of legislation. I would also like to thank my colleagues on INAN, the indigenous and northern affairs committee, for their careful consideration and study of the bill.
The proposed amendments in Bill C-45 align with the April 2020 report of our committee entitled “Barriers to Economic Development in Indigenous Communities”. We worked collaboratively to achieve the recommendations in that report to champion the economic reconciliation and self-determination by unanimously supporting Bill C-45. Before I continue, I would like to acknowledge the members of that committee for the great work they did and the collaborative work we have done in making sure we passed it with urgency.
Most of all, I would like to recognize the chairs of the first nations-led institutions that put forward the proposed changes to the act and co-developed Bill C-45 with our government. I thank Harold Calla, executive chair of the First Nations Financial Management Board; Manny Jules, chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission; Ernie Daniels, president of the First Nations Finance Authority; as well as Allan Claxton and Jason Calla of the First Nations Infrastructure Institute development board.
The First Nations Fiscal Management Act is an optional piece of legislation, with 348 signatories, and it is an alternative to the Indian Act regime. It is important to key in on the word “optional” because the stakeholders have told us that it is always important to give indigenous communities the choice. They deserve that choice when it comes to their affairs. It is consistent with what we have passed with the UNDRIP Act.
With this act, first nations can assert their jurisdiction in the areas of financial management, taxation and access to capital markets. Bill C-45 was co-developed with the first nations institutions under the act, and responds to what first nations have called for, to improve and expand the current services available under the act, and to establish the First Nations Infrastructure Institute.
Some of these proposed legislative amendments are as follows: modernize and expand the mandates of the tax commission and the financial management board respectively to better reflect the increasing needs for their services; allow the tax commission, the financial management board and the proposed infrastructure institute to collect and analyze data; and establish for the first time ever a First Nations Infrastructure Institute as a national indigenous-led organization that would support first nations scheduled to the act, as well as indigenous organizations and groups, to achieve better and more sustainable infrastructure outcomes. It would very much create a centre of excellence for indigenous infrastructure across Canada, whether dealing with wastewater or greening community buildings.
I would like to provide members with an example of the type of great work the First Nations Financial Management Board can support.
In my riding about 10 years ago, the Membertou first nation in Cape Breton received the board's first-ever financial systems certification, which provided the community with access to long-term, affordable capital to the first nations financial authority. I am not over-exaggerating when I say that this was a game changer for that community and the region of Cape Breton. It allowed the first nations to refinance, freeing up funds to reinvest in business developments. The results have been fantastic. They include an $8.2-million elementary school, a 90-lot housing development and a $9.5-million highway interchange that allows access to future commercial developments on land owned by the Membertou.
From this—
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- May/15/23 3:49:51 p.m.
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Thank you for that point of order.
Continuing debate, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.
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Mr. Speaker, the biggest part of my speech was talking about the enormous amount of success that communities are seeing while utilizing some of the legislation and the tools that our government has provided.
However, now that we are on the subject of Clearwater, it was great to see, within the first year, a return of record profits. It seems that when first nations communities are able to take over and really show the world what indigenous peoples can do when given the opportunity, that is what we get to see. Chief Terry's words on the national media were legendary. He said, about this deal and this acquisition, “It made us look like geniuses”. I am really proud that my government was a little part of that.
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Uqaqtittiji, I do enjoy working with the hon. member at the indigenous and northern affairs committee.
Regarding Bill C-45, as first nations begin to move toward financial independence, it does not mean that governments are alleviated from their obligations to meet the needs of first nations communities. I wonder if the member agrees with me that while we move toward that, governments will always have obligations to meet the needs of first nations communities.
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Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Nunavut sits with me on the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs and is a very important member of that committee.
I agree with her fully that this does not release the government in terms of its fiduciary obligations to first nations communities. What this gives to communities are tools to get outside of the Indian Act. One of the shirts that I often see when I go to powwows with my son is a shirt that says “Burn sage, sweetgrass and the Indian Act”.
What our government is doing is pivoting from the Indian Act to giving communities options they can opt out of, fully with their own systems, fully with their own autonomy. Our eventual goal is to make sure that we focus on the valuable work that we need to do and the UNDRIP Act, and to make sure that all government departments are consistent with that.
I would like to thank the member for her hard work in making sure that we got Bill C-45 where it is today.
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Mr. Speaker, I think we have heard, loud and clear, from indigenous communities at the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, and across Canada, that processes work only if they are co-developing the process. The process works only if they are helping lead this process.
With this legislation, we have four organizations in Canada that have been working really hard, for many years, to ensure that we move forward on this. The biggest thing that we have to ensure is that it is optional for communities, that we are not forcing anything on Indian Act communities, that this is part of it only if they choose to be a part of it. That is the biggest part of respecting another nation's self-determination.
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Mr. Speaker, as members know, I am running for Prime Minister to put Canadians back in charge of their lives, and nowhere is this more true than when it comes to our first nations, which have suffered for far too long under a paternalistic and overpowering federal government and a so-called “Indian Act”, which seems determined and designed to prevent first nations from making their own decisions and controlling their own lives. That is why Conservatives have long called for empowering first nations governments to take control of their land, resources, money and decisions.
That is why we are so happy that the government has copycatted one of our central proposals to make that happen with regard to infrastructure. The Liberals have included it in their budget, and we are pleased that they have carved it off the budget and allowed it to pass through the House separately, expedited as we asked for, so that we can get it done.
Let us talk about what this bill would do.
I just got off the phone with the great Manny Jules. He is the head of the First Nations Tax Commission. He and his family were among the architects of allowing first nations to collect their own local property tax revenues. He has fought his entire life to allow first nations governments and decision-makers to take control of the money that would otherwise go to Ottawa and to allow the local first nations to decide for themselves, rather than relying on the incompetence of the bureaucracy and politicians in Ottawa.
In other words, he told me that he is tired and first nations are tired of being the fastest turtles in the room, because that is how the system of infrastructure finance, he says, has worked, or failed to work, under the existing rules that we are about to change. In the past, a first nation that wanted to build something would have to apply for financing from Ottawa. Sometimes, it takes as long as 10 years for the bureaucrats to wrap their heads around the most basic infrastructure project that other communities would take for granted.
Many of my constituents ask why it is that our first nations cannot have clean drinking water systems in their communities. The answer is that none of us would have clean drinking water if we had to live under the same impossible and incompetent rules that the federal government imposes on first nations. Having to apply to a government that is 2,000 miles away and to deal with bureaucrats they have never met and do not know, who have never been to their community, to sign off on every single detail of every infrastructure plan, of course, is going to prevent things from getting done.
What we need to do is stop stopping and start starting, and to do that, we need to get Ottawa out of the way. The bill before us would do that.
It is a common-sense proposal. Here is how it would work: If a first nation wants to build something, instead of just asking for permission from the bureaucrats in Ottawa, it can monetize its future revenues to build long-standing assets. Let us say they are building a bridge that will last 40 years; they would be able to amortize the cost over the 40-year period and use their annual revenue streams to pay that cost. Of course, they would issue debentures, or debt, like any other government would normally do, and they could pool their risk with other, similar first nations that have similarly high financial and infrastructure standards. This would allow them to make their own decisions about projects today using the future revenues that they will inevitably bring in, which they can guarantee and certify.
That is how things get built. It would also allow public-private partnerships. This would, of course, send the New Democrats into a panic, because they do not want any private involvement in any aspect of our lives, but it would allow first nations to team up with the pension funds and other major investors to build projects that are both profitable to investors and also extremely effective for local communities. It would allow them to build schools, hospitals, water systems, bridges, roads and training centres. All manner of things that we take for granted in the rest of Canada could be built through this. It would also allow them to own the projects and use the assets for leverage for future investments.
This is the kind of common-sense infrastructure finance that we would expect if we were living in any other part of the country, so we as Conservatives support this. We want it to happen as quickly as possible, but we also want to go further.
We believe that the government's paternalistic, anti-development laws, like Bill C-69, are a major attack on indigenous rights by blocking first nations from developing projects that they support, preventing paycheques and preventing revenues for programs that would lift people out of poverty. We would repeal Bill C-69 and allow first nations to build projects with their resources. We would work with them on a new model so they can keep more of the money that comes from those projects.
This is an exciting time, when first nations entrepreneurs are leading the way. Let me give one example of this. Vancouver has become a city held back by government gatekeepers. It costs $650,000 in red tape for every new housing unit, because the city hall there is run by gatekeepers and the Prime Minister sends more money for gatekeeping. There is no wonder it is the third most expensive housing market on planet Earth. The Squamish people have their own land within the city of Vancouver but, luckily, they do not have to follow the zoning and permitting rules of city hall. They were able to approve, and are now building, 6,000 units of housing on 10 acres of land; that is 600 units per acre. If they were part of the city of Vancouver, they never would have gotten it done.
We can also look at what the Tsuut'ina Nation is doing near Calgary, building incredible business plazas that would still have been tied up in Calgary city hall bureaucracy if it had had to follow the rules in that jurisdiction. What we are seeing across the country is that first nations communities are, increasingly, far better places to do business than the municipal jurisdictions next to them are. We can imagine what they could do if the federal government in Ottawa would get out of the way and let them get things done.
This bill would do that for traditional infrastructure projects that governments normally run and regulate. Let us imagine allowing for the same with private sector and resource development projects. It would mean more business opportunities for first nations to generate revenues to provide Canada with lower-cost goods and more powerful paycheques for all our people. Now let us imagine further, that, instead of all of the revenue coming from those projects going to Ottawa to be gobbled up by bureaucracy, and forcing first nations to ask for it back, the money stayed in those communities in the first place and they could reinvest it to create a virtuous cycle of more and more opportunity. This is the vision we have: by getting rid of the gatekeepers and getting out of the way of first nations, allowing more local autonomy in decisions about resources, construction, jobs and financial management, we believe that, over the next century, first nations can lead the country in prosperity.
That is the empowering vision that we have, but we have to get back to common sense. It is wonderful that we have one bill, just one bill, with some common sense in it from the government, which proves that even a broken clock is right twice a day. The government should listen to Manny Jules more often, listen to our first nations leaders more often and listen to the people on the ground, the people who know what has happened, the people who have the traditional wisdom. If it did that more often, we would get more bills like this, we would have more paycheques for our people, we would get more built for our country and we would all be better off. It is the common sense of the common people, united for our common home. Now, let us bring it home.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to start off by thanking the Leader of the Opposition for his critics, who did a wonderful job in terms of making sure that we got this, in a timely manner, in front of us to debate. I agree with you; this is quite good in terms of common-sense legislation.
I would have to just kind of correct the member opposite. I know he does not often get up in the House to speak to indigenous issues, but when you use the term “our first nation” it comes across as possessive. Many first nations across Canada have said they do not want to be considered our possession or the possession of anyone.
The question I have concerns Bill C-69, which you talked about as an important thing. I agree with you when you say that indigenous communities are becoming far better places to do business. A lot of the time, when they are doing that business, indigenous communities are prioritizing what the impacts are on the environment. A lot of the things that we heard during UNDRIP were about communities wanting free, prior and informed consent when it comes to development on their area. That does not mean that they are against development but that they are for sustainable development.
Do you stand with indigenous communities and their free, prior and—
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Mr. Speaker, I will take that into consideration. I get so much time to speak to you, as a former Nova Scotia MP. Rarely do I get to speak to the Leader of the Opposition.
The question was what your thoughts are around free, prior and informed consent for indigenous communities to be able to—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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