SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 197 - May/15/23

May/15/23 12:22:14 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I could repeat the numbers that I have given over the last minutes, but I will just say that I do believe that we have had rigorous debate on this piece of legislation, which, by the way, Canadians are waiting for. We have heard a number of members raise different environmental disasters. In fact, the bill would attempt to prevent those, and it would recognize the right to a healthy environment. It would strengthen the foundation for the management of chemicals and other substances. There have been 38 clauses amended, out of nearly 70 clauses, and this is over a long time period. Canadians do expect rigorous debate in this place; I know that and I hear that from my constituents.However, they also expect us to act, and that is what today is about. Today is about taking that debate and putting it into motion so Canadians can have confidence that this place is doing the work they expect of it.

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Mr. Warren Steinley (Regina—Lewvan, CPC)

May/15/23 12:23:09 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the minister's bringing up the idea of it being time to act. I have a simple question for the minister. Would the bill prevent the dumping of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River so we could have a clean water system at the St. Lawrence?

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:23:26 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I am happy to hear the member opposite talk about the many different ways environments can be degraded. As I said, in a nutshell, this act would recognize a right to a healthy environment and strengthen the foundation for the management of chemicals and other substances. It would impose a duty on the government to protect that right and to uphold related principles. I will just say that many of these tragedies we are talking about are decades old, yet people are still living with the environmental impacts to this day. I was speaking with people in Grassy Narrows last week about the ongoing contamination of water and about the life that many of the residents have, in living with mercury poisoning. These are conversations that should alarm us all and compel us to act quickly, and that is what today is about.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

May/15/23 12:24:18 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, today is a day of contradictions. I just heard the minister say that the public expects us to engage in debate, while at the same time, we are presented with a gag order. We support the bill. Our issue is not with the bill. Our issue is with the debate, with our ability to give bills deeper consideration and potentially enhance them. Once again, what is the rationale underlying this time allocation? Why is the opposition always being silenced? I would like the minister to give us a clearer explanation.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:24:55 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, on the contrary, this has been a robust debate with opportunities for all members of the House to have their say, whether through debate or through participation on committees. In fact, in the House, for example, 106 amendments were tabled and 38 clauses out of 70 were accepted. It shows the level of debate, that there were over 306 amendments in total between the Senate and the House of Commons and that so many of those amendments were accepted. This is an example of the House doing its due diligence in studying this legislation. Now it is time to act.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

May/15/23 12:25:41 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the minister for talking about how there really is no time to waste on this. I wanted to raise my hands to the member for Victoria for wanting to do something more around labelling. Yesterday, the news in British Columbia was talking about breast cancer. One in eight women in this country will go through breast cancer, and it is coming earlier and earlier. Now, early in their 40s, more women are getting breast cancer. For years, the government has allowed corporations to hide which toxic substances are in the products we all use. We need mandatory labelling of hazardous substances. My question to the minister this. When will the Liberals stop siding with big corporations and start protecting human health?

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:26:33 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member opposite for talking about the need to have stringent requirements for corporations to not pollute the environment, which not just our generation but also the generations to follow will rely on. This is an important part of that. This legislation would recognize the right to a healthy environment and impose a duty on the government to protect that right and uphold related principles. It would require ministers to develop an implementation framework within two years and to conduct research to support the protection of the right. The legislation is expected to support strong environmental and health standards now and in the future, and there would be a ton of opportunity, through this legislation, to strengthen the rights to a healthy environment and to strengthen the foundation for the management of chemicals and other substances that have deleterious health effects for so many Canadians.

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Mr. Blake Richards (Banff—Airdrie, CPC)

May/15/23 12:27:26 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, the government has become well known for making a promise and then delivering something completely different from what it had promised. I think we could see the Prime Minister as the Harry Houdini prime minister, holding up something here, and then, poof, with some sleight of hand, delivering something completely different. I think there are many Canadians who are starting to see behind the veil and understand that those magic tricks are not really so magical after. In listening to the minister today, responding to some of the questions that she had been asked previously, I see that played out very clearly in front of our eyes. I would like to follow up, in two parts, on some of the things we have already heard about. The government is one that came in saying it would never implement closure, or time allocation. Just so Canadians understand what that means, it means cutting off debate and taking away the voice of a member of Parliament to be able to voice their constituents' concerns. That is what the government is doing, and it has done that dozens, in fact hundreds, of times. I wonder if the minister could actually answer that question. I also heard a member ask whether the bill would do anything to prevent the dumping of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence, and I did not hear an answer. I heard the minister talk about everything else, which is a very typical Liberal way to approach things: to talk about everything else in order to deflect from the fact that the Liberals are not doing things that Canadians expect of them. Maybe the minister could actually try answering the question. Would the bill prevent raw sewage from being dumped into the St. Lawrence?

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:29:04 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I will note that the member opposite's party is expected to support this bill. That is an indication of how important this is to all constituents across the country. Canadians, regardless of the party and the member of Parliament who represent them in their riding, want stronger protections for the environment. That is what the government has consistently delivered. In fact, we are the only government that, for example, has imposed a price on pollution, something that the member opposite's leader now opposes. Canadians know that the climate is changing. They know we have significant challenges ahead, and this is an important piece of legislation that will protect the rights of Canadians to a healthy environment. I think Canadians expect us to act quickly.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

May/15/23 12:29:58 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I take note that this debate on a time allocation motion about an environmental protection act really has nothing to do with the issue the Conservatives keep raising. The only thing they can talk about, when it has to do with the environment, is Montreal and what it does with its sewage system. If they really wanted to help Montreal, perhaps they would talk about helping Montreal with infrastructure to upgrade the capacity, so it is no longer put in those types of situations. That seems to be the go-to when it is anything related to the environment. We are talking about a piece of legislation that will significantly overhaul the way we look at environmental protection in our country for generations to come. I am wondering if the minister can talk about, and I know that she already has, and highlight some of the specifics of what this legislation will do to improve the quality of life of Canadians for generations to come.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:31:03 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, after travelling around the country visiting with indigenous communities over the past two years, the most heartbreaking aspect is visiting a community that has seen a significant degradation of its environment related to industrial activity. We do not have to look very far. These are communities in northern Ontario. I know some members have never been there, but when one visits the community, one sees environmental pollution, and one could say environmental racism. There are people living there, and they have a right to a healthy environment, just like everyone in Montreal, Toronto, Windsor and Thunder Bay does, for that matter. This legislation is important. It is important to make sure that we do not have an out-of-sight, out-of-mind perspective when it comes to environmental rights. This legislation helps to get us there.

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Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

May/15/23 12:31:55 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, the minister spoke about the need for the government to listen to indigenous communities. The AFN wrote to the government and provided recommendations. The first recommendation was to include the words “future generations” in the protection of the right to a healthy environment. We heard the same recommendation from indigenous leaders at committee. Giving future generations a right to a healthy environment is not only a critical step forward to protect human health and the environment, but also an important way to listen and act on the recommendations from indigenous leaders. I tabled an amendment to reflect that request, but the government voted it down. I am wondering if the minister can speak to why.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:32:39 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, the record of the government on environmental law and protections for the future generations is something that all Canadians have noted. In fact, our environmental plan is about protecting the future generations. It is about our part as Canada to reduce emissions, transition to a clean economy make sure that everybody has an opportunity to benefit from that clean economy. We have to do so, even though those conversations are hard. That is what this debate has been. This has been hours and hours of debate, more than there were for the budget implementation act. This has been about extensive study, many written submissions and many oral submissions. I look forward to working with the member opposite and, indeed, all parties, to make sure that, as we implement this legislation, we breathe full life into it, so that every Canadian can see themselves reflected.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (Yorkton—Melville, CPC)

May/15/23 12:33:35 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, as I have been listening, I have heard there “is no time to waste”, that we have a right to a clean environment and that this is “a duty”. We have to uphold the principles of a clean environment for Canadians and our indigenous people, for sure. I am confused that this legislation did not come until February 2022, and it has taken this long and multiple amendments to what clearly must have been a sorely lacking piece of legislation. It is important that we get to spend the time we need to make sure that it is done right. I would ask the member how it is that this has suddenly become a priority and, unfortunately, came in as such a weak bill in the first place.

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Ms. Laurel Collins

May/15/23 12:34:29 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, the member referred to “our indigenous people”. The member for Winnipeg Centre has raised this point a number of times in the House, requesting members to not use possessive language. Indigenous people do not belong to the members of the House, so I would ask the member to use different language.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

May/15/23 12:34:58 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, it is not possessive language. It is recognition of—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 12:35:02 p.m.
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That is debate. This has been requested by an indigenous member of the House. The hon. minister has the floor.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:35:08 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to answer this question. There was, weirdly, an imposing premise in the question that, one, it took the government too long to get here and, two, the government was rushing through this legislation. Let me just address this. Unlike the previous Conservatives government under Stephen Harper, which introduced water legislation on a first nation without any consultation with first nations people, the Liberal government takes its time to ensure that it hears all perspectives before tabling important legislation like this. I am thrilled to support this legislation, and I know that many others in this House are. I am thankful for the time today.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 12:35:46 p.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House. The vote is on the motion. If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

May/15/23 12:37:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we request a recorded vote, please.

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