44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 7, 2023 10:00AM
- Mar/7/23 10:02:56 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the seventh report of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, entitled “Up to the Task: Strengthening Canada’s Security Posture in Relation to Russia.” Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the government table a comprehensive response to this report.
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Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to speak to Bill C-27 today. As I put forward to my friend in the form of a question, when we think of Bill C-27, I like to think that the government is on the right track in continuing to protect the privacy of Canadians in many different ways. Yesterday we had a debate on Bill C-26 on cybersecurity.
If we take a holistic look at what the government has been able to accomplish through legislation and, ultimately, in certain areas in terms of developing the industry through budgetary measures, Canada is indeed in a very good position in comparison to our peer countries around the world. I do not say that lightly, because I know that all members are very concerned about the issue of privacy. That is in good part why we have the legislation today.
The last time these changes we are proposing happened was two decades ago. Let us reflect on that time of 20 years ago. We did not have iPhones, and Facebook did not exist. Going back a little further than that to when I was first elected, when one clicked into the Internet, the first thing one heard was a buzzing sound, the dial tone and then clicking. Then one was magically connected to the world. How far we have advanced in a relatively short period of time. Last week, I was on the Internet making a purchase that would be delivered. I never had to go to the store. It involved my doing a little bit of design work on the computer before making the purchase. I was told yesterday that it was delivered to my home.
The amount of information out there is absolutely incredible, and it is very hard to imagine the types of data and the risk factors out there. That is why it is so important that, as a government, we bring forward substantive legislation that is going to protect the privacy of Canadians, to ensure companies are held accountable and, in the context of yesterday's debate, to protect them from security threats that are very strong and very viable. It was interesting yesterday listening to the debate for a number of hours.
I get the sense that a wide spectrum of support is shaping up today. The NDP is supporting the legislation. My understanding is that the Conservatives are supporting the legislation. The Bloc, in principle, is supporting the legislation. The Province of Quebec has actually made some significant gains on this whole front, so I am not surprised that the Bloc or members from Quebec within the Liberal caucus are very strong about these issues, whether they are cybersecurity issues or the privacy issues of Bill C-27 that we are debating today.
I raise this because I believe that it does not matter what side of the House one happens to sit on, as this is legislation worth supporting. As I indicated, it has been 20 years since we have seen substantial changes to the legislation. The expectation is very high that we will not only introduce the legislation but that, with the cooperation of members opposite, we will see it pass through in a timely fashion.
Being an optimist, I would like to see the bill pass before the summer, and it is possible. I realize that it would require a great deal of co-operation from opposition parties, but I do believe it is doable, especially after the comments I heard this morning.
The legislation is not meant to address every matter that Canadians are having to face in the digital world. That is not what it is designed for. As I indicated, the legislation, whether this one or Bill C-26, goes a long way in establishing a solid base for a framework that would enable the government of the day, which is held accountable by the opposition, to have the opportunity to do a lot of work in an area where we need to see a higher sense of security and protection.
One member across the way asked about engagement. There has been a great deal of engagement. I can assure the member that, whether it is from a constituency perspective, a ministerial perspective or, I would even suggest, the member would have to take some credit in terms of an opposition perspective, there has been a great deal of dialogue. This is not a new issue. This issue has been in the making for years now.
There have been some factors that are beyond the government's control in terms of the manner in which it can bring forward legislation, for example the worldwide pandemic and the requirement for substantial legislation in order to support Canadians and have their backs. There were issues of that nature, along with numerous other pieces of legislation. I would not want to give a false impression that this is not an important issue for the Government of Canada.
At the end of the day, based on comments I have heard on both Bill C-26 and Bill C-27, I believe the legislation would establish a solid footing or framework, whatever terminology we might want to use, and, at the very least, we should see it go to committee. The principles of the legislation are in fact endorsed and supported by all sides of the House, from what I can tell, and please correct me if I am wrong. No doubt we will have other legislation that might be somewhat more controversial, where there is real opposition to the legislation, and this would enable more time for debate on that type of legislation.
If we could somehow recognize the value of this legislation, given that there is so much support for its principles, we would allow it to go to committee, where members of Parliament are afforded the opportunity to get into the nuts and bolts, the details, where there is representation from different stakeholders at committee to express their thoughts and opinions on the legislation, and where members can find out directly from the minister what kind of consultation has taken place. The member does not to have to take my word for it, but I can assure him that there has been a great deal of consultation. He would be able to hear that first-hand from departmental officials, the minister and so forth.
I believe the government has done its work in bringing the legislation to the point where it is today. We have seen ministers, in their opening remarks and in their response to questions, in co-operation with opposition members. The government has demonstrated very clearly in the past that it is open to amendments that can improve upon legislation for the benefit of Canadians, and if there are ways we can improve this legislation, we will accept those types of amendments. We will support those types of amendments. I believe this is one of the areas where the Prime Minister has been very good in sending that message. It could be because of years in opposition, when the opposition never had amendments accepted by former prime minister Stephen Harper.
At the end of the day, if there are ways to do it, we can improve upon this bill. I heard yesterday on Bill C-26, and already today on Bill C-27, that members have genuine concerns. I do not question those concerns, but I do believe that it would be helpful if they can look at those concerns. If they already have ideas that they believe will improve the legislation, nothing prevents members of the opposition or government members from being able to provide those amendments or thoughts in advance to the ministry, which would potentially allow for a deeper look into it to see if, in fact, something is doable.
The NDP talked, for example, about digital rights for Canadians. There is a great deal of concern that we need to ensure and recognize them, whether they are consumer rights or privacy rights. These are things we all hold very close to our hearts. We all want to make sure the interests of Canadians are being served.
When I took a look at the specifics of the legislation, I highlighted three parts I wanted to make reference to. CPPA would strengthen privacy enforcement and oversight in a manner that is similar to that of certain provinces and some of Canada's foreign trading partners. It is important that we do not just look internally. There are jurisdictions, whether nations or provincial entities, that have already done some fine work in this area. We do not have to reinvent the wheel, and working with or looking at other forms of legislation that are there is a very positive thing. In particular, the CPPA would do so by granting the Privacy Commissioner of Canada order-making powers that can compel organizations to stop certain improper activities or uses of personal information and order organizations to preserve information relevant to an OPC investigation.
This is significant. We need to think in terms of the technology that I make reference to. I can remember a number of years back when a pizza store was becoming computerized. As someone called in and made an order, they recorded the telephone number, the name and the address, personal information such as that. I remember talking to the franchise owner, whom I happen to know quite well, explaining how the collection of data, if used appropriately, can not only complement the business, but also complement the consumer, and this was maybe 20 years ago.
We can contrast that to an iPhone and looking at some of those applications we see. The one that comes to mind is a true Canadian application and a true Canadian franchise: Tim Hortons. My wife never followed hockey, but nowadays she does because of Tim Hortons. One can win free cups of coffee by picking who is going to score goals or get assists. I am not exactly sure how it works, but Tim Hortons comes up with a program that is actually collecting data from people. It is a program that allows it to send out all kinds of notifications. It could be sales of product. It could be something like NHL standings. It really engages the consumers. An incredible amount of data is actually being collected.
Tim Hortons is not alone. One can go to virtually all the major franchises and find the same thing. It is not just the private sector. Yesterday we were talking about cybersecurity, and one can easily understand and appreciate the sensitivity of collecting information, even if one is a Tim Hortons or a Home Depot, but also many government agencies. For example, there is the amount of personal information Manitoba Health has, which is all computerized. There are also doctors' offices. The digital world, in a very real and tangible way, has changed to such a degree that many, including myself, would argue that things like Internet access have become an absolute and essential service nowadays. It is something we all require.
The incredible growth of data banks, both in the private sector and in the government, and I would throw in the non-profits and the many other groups that collect data, has been substantive in the last 15 or 20 years. That is the reason why today we have the type of legislation we have before us. Bill C-27 would ensure that we have something in place to provide consequences for offences. To give members a sense of those consequences, the new law would enable administrative monetary penalties for serious contraventions of the law, subject to a maximum penalty of 3% or $10 million of an organization's global revenue, whichever is greater, and fines of up to 5% of revenues or $25 million, whichever is greater, for the most serious offences.
I said I wanted to highlight three things, so I will move on to the second point. The personal information and data protection tribunal act would establish a new tribunal, which would be responsible for determining whether to assign administrative monetary penalties that are recommended by the Privacy Commissioner following investigations, determining the amount of penalties and hearing appeals of the Privacy Commissioner's orders and decisions. The tribunal would provide for access to justice and contribute to further development of privacy expertise by providing expeditious reviews of the Privacy Commissioner's orders.
The third point is that the AIDA would impose a duty to act responsibly by requiring organizations designing, developing, deploying or operating high-impact artificial intelligence technologies to put in place measures to proactively mitigate risks of harm and bias in the development of these technologies.
I have less than a minute left to talk, and I have not even touched on the AI file. I made reference at the very beginning to the financial investments of this government in encouraging the growth of that industry in the different regions of our country. The Government of Canada is not only bringing in the type of securities that are absolutely important for Canadians from a privacy perspective, to encourage continual growth in the area and have these protections in place, but also doing so through budgetary measures to ensure that we continue to enhance the opportunities of Canadians. If we take a look at the digital world today, it is very hard to imagine where it is going to be tomorrow, at least for myself, in witnessing the growth of the digital world over the last 20 or 30 years and how far it has gone.
This legislation is a modernization. It is legislation we can all get behind and support. I would encourage members, no matter what party they are from, to support it. Let us see it go to committee, where the committee can do its fine work and see if we can even improve—
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Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise once again in this place as we resume debate on Bill C-27, the digital charter implementation act.
During discussion of this bill and related issues, we are not going to get anywhere if we do not start to recognize that privacy is a fundamental right. This is what Conservatives believe and is where we are coming from when we talk about the positive or negative aspects of this piece of legislation. Not only is it true, but it has to be a priority. That is what Canadians expect from us and that is the message we are delivering to the current government. It is also what has been echoed by many of our constituents as we get emails or phone calls from people who are concerned about this bill and about this issue in general.
The world we live in is rapidly changing and the pace of change seems to be getting faster as we go. It is really amazing what people can achieve with digital technology, yet it has also left us in a more vulnerable and insecure position. There are many ways to intrude upon and violate our privacy that did not exist before, and it is safe to say that this trend will continue in the coming years.
If it was not clear already, it is easy to see now that we have to do more than respond to the changes simply as they come. Instead, we need to do our absolute best to think ahead and make sure that our efforts to protect privacy will not become outdated shortly after we pass any kind of bill into law. It is the least we can do if we are serious about preparing our country for the future, but it is true that, before we can do that, we first have some catching up to do.
Our current privacy legislation is long overdue for an update. It has been 22 years since Canada updated its privacy legislation. Twenty-two years ago, the Internet was basically a new phenomenon, and only about half of Canadians were online. Back then, I think Joe Sakic was the MVP of the NHL, and I was only 13 years old, so a lot has changed in that time.
Today, the Internet is a valuable tool used daily by the majority of Canadians. Generally speaking, people basically are living online. We use social media to connect with family, friends and professional networks. We use a GPS to get directions to move from place to place and navigate around our cities and towns. We have online banking to manage our finances. However, at the beginning of the new millennium, pretty much the majority of this was unheard of. In fact, I think we can all remember what we thought was going to potentially happen on Y2K and the implications it was possibly going to have on technology, which thankfully never came to fruition.
It has been years since the Liberals announced a new data strategy for Canada, which also has not become a reality. The promise also came four years after they formed government. It has now been about as long from then until now. After such a long time, Canadians are still waiting for someone to provide higher standards for the use and collection of their personal data.
So much of what we do these days involves an exchange of our data. Facial and fingerprint recognition are used for security, along with our passwords. Digital maps and search functions track our locations in real time. Many of us upload and share an overwhelming amount of personal information on social media accounts and platforms. We are constantly giving our data to different online companies in order to use their services. People feel comfortable enough to do all this because there is a voluntary loss of privacy for the sake of convenience, but this arrangement also requires a deep level of trust. It could not exist otherwise.
Whenever there has been a breach or loss of that trust, the problem of privacy becomes more obvious. There have been organizations exploiting the trust of people to sell their personal information without authorization. In some cases, the data has gone to places that are not working in their best interests.
I am sure, Madam Speaker, like many people in the House, when you go to a website it asks you if you accept the cookies, for example. Obviously, people just accept and go on there because they want to read the articles. What they do not realize is what they are agreeing to when it talks about what is going to happen with their search history or different aspects that might be invaded by those cookies. Therefore, we have to get serious about privacy. We have to mean it when we say that we recognize that privacy is a fundamental right.
The first draft of Bill C-27 says in the preamble, “the protection of the privacy interests of individuals with respect to their personal information is essential to individual autonomy and dignity and to the full enjoyment of fundamental rights and freedoms in Canada”.
Of course, I am not going to disagree with that. I believe it is good for a law to make a statement like this. However, it is also true that we can and should take it a step further in the same direction. Why not have this type of statement included in the text of the bill instead of only in the preamble? That way, it would more likely be stronger for enforcement and interpretation by the courts. With the situation we are in today, it is worth making our privacy law as strong as possible, and this would be a simple way for us to set the right tone. That is something we are calling for.
This is one example, among many, of how Bill C-27 could be improved with some amendments. Conservatives want to make sure we update our legislation in the right way. After all, in this area of privacy, we should not settle for less.
There is more that can be done to fill the gaps in our privacy law. If the government does not accept stronger legislation, it will simply be insufficient. The law must ensure that the privacy of our citizens would be respected by the activities of government and business. Canadians are the owners of their data, and corporations should ask for consent if ever they hope to collect, use or disclose a client's information.
Instead, the Liberal government still has loopholes with respect to privacy. Corporations can still operate with implied consent instead of express consent, which is freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous consent. What happened with Home Depot and Facebook shows how relying on implied consent can go wrong. In this case, a person could ask for email receipts from Home Depot. Their email address, as well as details of their purchase, were given to Meta, which then matched the person with a Facebook or Instagram account.
When brought to court, Home Depot claimed that it had the implied consent of customers to share their emails with whomever it pleased. When I shopped at Home Depot, I never gave my email address to it, but it never once asked me if I was okay with sharing that data with somebody other than for its own transactional purposes.
We have a lack of clarity, which is not protecting the consumer as much it should be. Implied consent has been losing relevance over time. In our context, it creates headaches for customers who are going about their regular business. They expect one thing and later find out that something much different is going on with their personal data. Even if they agreed or simply went along with something, they rightly feel misled by what happened. That is not informed consent. Our peer countries have been moving away from this. Europe's general data protection regulation has been heralded as the gold standard for privacy laws, and it has done away with implied consent.
Going back to discussing Home Depot, it also said that anything people bought there would be classified as “non-sensitive”, which is something this bill fails to define. Vague language will not favour our citizens in the end. With the Home Depot case, we can see that the law could be interpreted by larger organizations to allow them to do what the law actually intended to restrict. We should clearly define “sensitive information”, and it needs to apply to everyone.
Another vague part of this bill is the implementation of the right to disposal. Bill C-27 would allow the user to request that their data be destroyed, but clarification is needed regarding anonymization and the right to delete or the right to vanish.
At the end of the day, this bill is like many announcements the Liberal government likes to make. It sounds good, but the incompetence, the vague language and failure to close loopholes mean that it would not do what it says it would do. However, it should not surprise anybody if a Liberal bill has significant weaknesses and gaps on the issue of privacy. It is hard for Canadians to take the government seriously based on its own record. It has not shown respect for privacy.
We have seen a government agency use location data from cellphones for tracking purposes. We have seen law enforcement access Clearview AI's illegally created facial recognition database, and, of course, last year we saw the public doxing of online donors. While that was happening, the Liberals decided to mess with the bank accounts of Canadians, and some of those people had not even made donations themselves and certainly had not committed crimes.
It is easy for things to go wrong when there is government overreach, but today the federal government has an opportunity to modernize and protect our country for the problems we face in the 2lst century. If it does not listen to us and fails to make the right decisions, it would be truly shameful.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.
I will repeat the comments I made earlier for another one of his colleagues concerning the very delicate line between the need to protect the personal information of each user on digital platforms and and digital services in every business and economic sector. There is also the issue of security and how to protect people who may be more vulnerable or more likely to be targeted by online attacks, or cyberviolence. We spoke about this yesterday during an interesting meeting with the two spokespersons for the StopCyberviolence campaign, who directed the film Backlash: Misogyny in the Digital Age.
I would like to know if my colleague believes that we are going to have to do some work to be able to identify and intercept cyber-attackers and to legislate against cyberviolence, while at the same time protecting the personal information of users of online services.
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Madam Speaker, I think my question will resonate with my colleague. Personal information protection and security are very important to me. I myself was recently a victim of credit card fraud. I bought a nice couch that I did not even shop for myself. Handy, right?
Anyway, as much as I recognize the importance of protecting personal information, I also recognize the importance of protecting victims of cyberviolence. We will be studying an online hate bill soon. My colleague and I may have to work on a way to identify offenders, individuals who attack people online and hide behind anonymity.
Does my colleague think the legislative measures in Bill C‑27 could make it harder for us to adequately legislate online hate?
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Madam Speaker, I think this government takes privacy very seriously. That is why we have been working on this legislation since the last government and why we have improved this legislation, bringing it before the government a second time to include things like artificial intelligence and improve security for the privacy of young people on the Internet.
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- Mar/7/23 2:30:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is the height of irresponsibility, when talking about national security, to talk about the fact that national security should just be set aside and we should just open this up as if it could be done. It is not something that I think is being responsible.
Responsible leadership is saying that every single member of the House is totally and utterly committed to protecting Canadian democracy. The assertion that anything else is true is offensive and untrue. Playing games with national security is not appropriate.
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- Mar/7/23 2:33:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, of course that question was asked, despite you saying that it was unparliamentary several times. I want to put that as a matter of record.
Let me say this and be very clear. One of the things that we had as a long tradition in our country was to make sure that when we were dealing with national security, we did not use national security as a way to play partisan politics and to grind an axe on one other.
The reality is that this issue of foreign interference has been a serious issue since well before this government. It was a matter that the member across was responsible for as a minister. They did not take action. We have—
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- Mar/7/23 2:43:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend likes to refer to what CSIS said. Let us talk about what it said in 2013, when the Leader of the Opposition was the minister responsible for democratic institutions. It specifically warned, 10 years ago, “When diaspora groups in Canada are subjected to clandestine and deceptive manipulation by a foreign power in order for it to garner support for its policies and values, these activities constitute a threat to the security of Canada.” What did the then Conservative government do for two years after that 2013 threat? It did absolutely nothing.
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- Mar/7/23 2:50:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague insists on repeating things about a secret committee. That must be the high-level committee that the Bloc is a member of, the committee that hears all the appropriate information about this and other national security issues and that tabled in Parliament reports that the government will act on.
The Bloc has fully participated in this process, and it is one of the processes that we set up to specifically address this issue.
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- Mar/7/23 2:54:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first, it is elections and democratic process that decides who gets out of the way, not the members opposite.
Second, I would say that, back when Justice O'Connor and Justice Iacobucci issued their reports talking about the need for parliamentarians to be able to see into every corner of government, it was the Conservatives who opposed that idea.
The secret committee they are maligning and attacking is one on which their own members sit, where they are given the opportunity to see into every corner of government, where they are able to see every document that is protected by national security.
I hope that the party opposite is not suggesting that we should say to our Five Eyes partners that all of our national security information should be put on display.
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